Improved CH - Creature Diversity

CrimsonMerc · Jan 27, 2022

So my proposal is to add different varieties of creatures to be tamed but what do I mean by that? Well let me use the Dewback as a prime example here. Currently in game, since its based on the NGE Beast Master system, no matter what Dewback I tame be it a regular, a mountain, cannibal, etc., I will just get a Dewback egg no matter what. Instead, I think this should be expanded. For example, maybe a regular Dewback just has regular stats, but a Mountain Dewback has more defense, a Cannibal Dewback has higher attack, a Grizzled Dewback has higher stats all-around, a Swarming Lesser Dewback has faster attack, etc. These would mean that all of these sub-species would have babies (be tamable) and each would produce their own egg. I use Dewbacks as an example because its the easiest to explain, but this can be applied to several creatures including but not limited to Banthas, Rancors, Squills, Bolle Bols, Rontos, Pikets, Spineflaps, Coreillian Butterflies, Chubas, Vesps, Nunas, Ikopis, etc. I think it would add some more variety to the already great Creature Handler system instead of the cookie-cutter system that we have now.

LordKorto · Jan 27, 2022

Nice concept, but it would take far too much work to add these new creature models and then apply relevant group bonuses. And to have this to apply across all creature types per creature group is a lot of work.
Plus, taming is kills the BE profession, so the less taming available the better.

CrimsonMerc · Jan 28, 2022

All of these models already exist in-game; they are essentially pallet swaps. This is just giving CHs the ability to hatch different eggs in the form of different species. For example, if a CH tames a Cannibal Dewback baby, instead of getting a "Dewback egg", they will get a "Cannibal Dewback egg".

BuddyHightower · Jan 28, 2022

I'm going to downvote this. This sounds something more related to BE than CH. Perhaps a CH can take an egg to a BE who could edit it into one of the sub-species.

CrimsonMerc · Jan 31, 2022

BuddyHightower said:
I'm going to downvote this. This sounds something more related to BE than CH. Perhaps a CH can take an egg to a BE who could edit it into one of the sub-species.

Its not related to BE though. If you played SWG CU or Pre-CU, then you know that you could tame a bunch of sub species of creatures and all of these sub-species had different stats. NGE removed CH and the only reason why we can't tame these sub-species is because in Resto III, they are using the Beast Master system from NGE instead of using the actual CH system from CU.

If you think about it, it doesn't make sense if I tame a Bull Ronto but receive a Ronto egg... where is the Bull Ronto egg? This proposal was to add more variety to the CH profession. Its true you can go to a BE and get whatever creature you want, but a lot of the fun from CH is running around on various planets and looking for interesting / rare creatures to tame- Resto III's system broke this.

CrimsonMerc · Feb 3, 2022

This would also solve a lot of problems with some of the gripes people have with BE. Imagine if this concept was tweaked a bit and CHs no longer received eggs, but they could tame any creature in the game with some obvious limits (no gorax, kimogillas, or Krayt dragons, etc).

However, BEs could make powerful pets that have armor and boosted stats? It seems like a win win.

CrimsonMerc · Feb 7, 2022

BuddyHightower said:
I'm going to downvote this. This sounds something more related to BE than CH. Perhaps a CH can take an egg to a BE who could edit it into one of the sub-species.

That doesn't make a lot of sense.

In CU and in pre-CU, CHs could tame a wide variety of creatures. Since Resto III is using the Beast Master system from NGE, CHs lost the ability to tame different species. For example, no matter what species of Dewback I tame, I will always get a Dewback egg regardless if I tame a Mountain Dewback, Grizzled Dewback, etc.

My proposal is to remove the egg system from CHs so we can tame pretty much whatever creature (and sub-species) we want. This would give CHs more variety (even if it is just a pallet swap). To take that concept further, different species of a creature group should have different stats (this would take longer to implement). I think this should be expanded to BEs so they can also make the sub-species for CHs.

The role of BEs has always been to make high-end pets for CHs and I do not wish for that role to change. This is just to give CHs more of a variety.

Drueric · Feb 8, 2022

"Bull Ronto" isnt the best example, since a bull ronto is just the male of the species, but I get your point and I support your idea. Other people suggesting that they shouldnt do it because it would "take too long" is just lame.

CrimsonMerc · Feb 9, 2022

Drueric said:
"Bull Ronto" isnt the best example, since a bull ronto is just the male of the species, but I get your point and I support your idea. Other people suggesting that they shouldnt do it because it would "take too long" is just lame.

I feel like people aren't understanding my proposal- in the CU and in pre-CU as a CH you could tame different varieties of creatures. For example, you couldn't just tame a Dewback, you could also tame a Cannibal Dewback, a Lesser Dewback, and a Mountain Dewback- all of these Dewbacks had different colors and slightly different stats. Same for Bantha: you could tame a Bull Bantha, Dune Bantha, Feral Bantha, etc. The reason you cannot do this on Restoration III is partly because it is using NGE's Beast Master System but also because even in CU and even in pre-CU, BEs couldn't create these different varieties- they always had to use the base creature e.g. Dewback, Bantha, Rill, etc.

My proposal is to tweak the current system and let CHs tame whatever they want (within reason- obviously no Krayt Dragons etc). I use the example of a Dewback because there are many different varieties of Dewback. If implemented, as a CH I can tame a Dewback, a Cannibal Dewback, a Grizzled Dewback, a Lesser Dewback, a Swarming Lesser Dewback, a Mountain Dewback and a boss mob Dewback (I think its a Sandreaver). As a CH, if I tame any of these varieties, I will get that prospective baby instead of a generic Dewback egg. All of these species will have slightly different stats and the ability to receive a creature egg will be completely removed from CHs (it will only be a BE thing).

Lastly, how will this creatures differ? Well lets use the Dewbacks again for this example. A regular Dewback can have well-rounded stats, but a Cannibal Dewback can have a higher attack. A Mountain Dewback can have higher defense, while a Grizzled Dewback can have slightly both slightly higher attack and slightly higher defense but if you tame a Sandreaver (baby version of a Dewback boss mob), it will have enhanced stats all around.

BuddyHightower · Feb 9, 2022

CrimsonMerc said:
I feel like people aren't understanding my proposal- in the CU and in pre-CU as a CH you could tame different varieties of creatures. For example, you couldn't just tame a Dewback, you could also tame a Cannibal Dewback, a Lesser Dewback, and a Mountain Dewback- all of these Dewbacks had different colors and slightly different stats. Same for Bantha: you could tame a Bull Bantha, Dune Bantha, Feral Bantha, etc. The reason you cannot do this on Restoration III is partly because it is using NGE's Beast Master System but also because even in CU and even in pre-CU, BEs couldn't create these different varieties- they always had to use the base creature e.g. Dewback, Bantha, Rill, etc.

My proposal is to tweak the current system and let CHs tame whatever they want (within reason- obviously no Krayt Dragons etc). I use the example of a Dewback because there are many different varieties of Dewback. If implemented, as a CH I can tame a Dewback, a Cannibal Dewback, a Grizzled Dewback, a Lesser Dewback, a Swarming Lesser Dewback, a Mountain Dewback and a boss mob Dewback (I think its a Sandreaver). As a CH, if I tame any of these varieties, I will get that prospective baby instead of a generic Dewback egg. All of these species will have slightly different stats and the ability to receive a creature egg will be completely removed from CHs (it will only be a BE thing).

Lastly, how will this creatures differ? Well lets use the Dewbacks again for this example. A regular Dewback can have well-rounded stats, but a Cannibal Dewback can have a higher attack. A Mountain Dewback can have higher defense, while a Grizzled Dewback can have slightly both slightly higher attack and slightly higher defense but if you tame a Sandreaver (baby version of a Dewback boss mob), it will have enhanced stats all around.

No, I think we understand just fine really, it's the BE profession that causes the issue for you.
Imagine if BHs could make their own seekers, or if a rifleman could make his own weapons.
Where does BE fit into this? Would they make the best creatures? If so, who would use a tamed one?

I think the sub-species is perfect for BEs as a niche. Allow CH to tame base models only and let BE modify their eggs to become sub-spices. Otherwise - one of the professions needs to change as they are in conflict with each other.

ICY1977 · Feb 9, 2022

I think taming creatures needs to be removed from CH it would be a benefit for BE to be able to make more than just 60 point pets to sell

CrimsonMerc · Feb 9, 2022

ICY1977 said:
I think taming creatures needs to be removed from CH it would be a benefit for BE to be able to make more than just 60 point pets to sell

That doesn't make sense though- that's literally not how it was live in pre-CU or in CU. In live CHs couldn't even get eggs- in fact, the whole egg system is just from NGE Beast Master.

BEs were never meant to make low-level and mid-level pets- they were always intended to make powerful high-level pets. That's how it was live in pre-CU and how it was live in CU. I have said it many times: instead of taking an ability away from CHs and forcing them to rely on BEs (which makes no sense), just take away the ability for CHs to receive eggs. In addition, make sure that BEs can create stronger pets. During live, how BEs would make money is by creating powerful pets for CH- typically how CHs made money is by trading low-level pets to non-CHs or by creating mounts.

What you are proposing is to drastically change a profession to benefit another.

CrimsonMerc · May 15, 2022

Bump.

Stormfinch · May 21, 2022

BEs were never meant to make low-level and mid-level pets- they were always intended to make powerful high-level pets.

Quoted for emphasis. If you want only BEs to create pets, head on over to Legends. A simple mount will cost you upwards of 200k. A 3 point pet (yes, I said three points) will run you 2 million plus. The status pets, rancor, kimo, etc? 45 million and up. New to the server? Forget being a creature handler, might as well train as something else until you can grind those credits. But hey, anyone can start as a jedi and are given their starter equipment for free, so that should fix it.

I agree with this suggestion. Once upon a time, a dune bantha baby came with different stats and attacks than a bantha, zucca boars were different from desert razorbacks and dragonets didn't become standard lizards. It would be nice to go back to that. Let CHs handle the starter level pets and mounts without the egg mechanic, and while we're at it, give them back the ability to train "vanity" pets with no fighting skill but buff abilities like the truffle pig and resource gathering boosts. If BEs need another way to make money, give tailors back the ability to attach genetic tissues to clothing. Personally, my scout would pay a pretty penny for clothing that could up my mask scent skill.

Nilden · Aug 16, 2022

I like this idea it sounds great.

I'm also in favor of making all babies tamable again. Your not going to get something better than what a BE can make and you can make the babies a low spawn rate and a low chance for the tame. Make them not even spawn from missions. It took me a month just to find a baby bull rancor on live. This should be something that is possible instead of the too difficult to tame message. Just totally lame.

Even at a 1 in 1000 chance for a baby rancor with a 1 in 100 chance to tame it I would take that over just nothing.

Please reconsider this you can make them extremely rare but at least still exist!

Kitti · Mar 21, 2023

I would also like to see vanity pets to be back. I played in the old swg and there were people that enjoyed having a pet without having to put precious skill points into CH. Maybe BEs can craft them and CHs can train them. It will give both another source of revenue. Right now CH can't make any credits until they're a master. And don't get me started on the cost of BE supplies.

As with BEs, making high end CH pets. That's a no brainer. Crafted items should always be better than looted/tamed items. That's one of the game mechanics thats at the heart of swg and something that has always made it stand apart from other MMOs.

Edited: Sorry, I've read the others posts and realuzed I'd reiterated some of the points already mentioned. It's been a long night. But that should show that those points are important and wanted.

JoyceeTT600 · Mar 27, 2023

I too find the egg and current taming system very lack lustre. I don’t necessarily agree with the OPs suggestion of subspecies due to the RNG already involved in taming.
My suggestion to make taming a more enjoyable and worthwhile experience without ruining the BE market would be to cap tamed pets at 48 randomly allocated points. So a BE can always make a pet better than a CH can tame.
I would also like to suggest that there be 3 categories of pets:
Category 1 - ‘basic’ pets that can be tamed by a MCH or made from DNA by a BE (apply 48pt cap to tamed pets, also exclude looted DNA such as reek)
Category 2 - ‘mutations’ this would include all creatures that do not appear elsewhere in the game (vorpal durni, cracktooth narglatch etc) and for these to be crafted by a BE using the current mutation system
Category 3 - ‘rare’ this would include creatures who are currently a mutation but appear elsewhere in the game (rancor,tanray etc) and for these to be tamed by a CH with an incredibly high creature taming skill through food, SEAs etc. so there is a significant investment on the CHs part. Also make the babies rare and hard to tame in line with mutation chances for BE. Do not cap this category as they would only be obtainable by a CH.

I believe a system such as above would allow CH and BE to enjoy their professions without having to overly compete with one another. If you want a rancor, you will have to hire a MCH with all the appropriate buffs to go out and not only find one, they then have to tame it, and even then it’s not guaranteed to be a 60 pt pet. Which I believe would be a similar amount of work and investment in time as a BE having to do repeated runs of failed mutation chances.

This could also benefit rangers through application of camo to increase taming chance, and if the tracking feature was used as it was in pre cu/cu to actual locate these rare babies.