Make Entertainer Mains Great Again

Make Entertainer Mains Great Again
This idea/suggestion has been flagged as Not Implemented because of a lack of popularity, lack of interest, lack of feasibility, or other determination by the Development Team, so the suggestion will not be implemented. Once a suggestion has been flagged this way, the decision is final. Although the issue may be raised again in the future after a six month cooldown. A response explanation from the Development Team can be found in the thread.
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teekismcgeekis

teekismcgeekis

Proposal
Work toward making the profession that makes this game so different SHINE!
Justification
Get Jimothy to come back!
Motivation
Being one and loving it!
MEMGA - get your hats and shirts at the link in the description!

Alright, so one of the things that makes this game so great is the non-combat professions. No offense shooty-boys and whack-a-bols. But, in all seriousness this game thrives when the community of social classes thrives.

3 Character Slots!? YES! I love it.. but every combat profession and crafting profession has progression past max-template. Except our favorite musical dancey folk! Have you found yourself wondering, should I just use my 3rd slot for an entertainer and just park them where I need them? If you have thought that, you are a smart person and good at saving time and money and should be commended. That leads me to the point that the thing that drives away entertainer mains is in the system itself.

So, I am hoping to share some of my ideas here to make this a thing of the past and make all of the great entertainer mains of R3 see that they are heard and they should come back to a cantina near you.. (I am looking at you Jimothy, come back to me... )

Tapes:
They are expensive, we don't know how to make them, we need them, want them.. and yeah.. Reverse engineers are rich bastards. Not that they need more customers but an entertainer would be a great candidate to be included in the Attachments market. Why?! Because they are already there!!! You can get Enhancement, Knowledge, and Assembly for entertainer specific things! You know what they do functionally at the moment? Nothing.. or at least nothing of worth.

I propose that the current buffs and their potency be dialed back a touch. And a fully taped entertainer can get to our current buff potency.

Why? Because a fresh template CL 80 doesn't stand a chance against Rohlan.. WHY?! Because investment in getting what is needed to be the best!

Credits:
It is a touchy subject.. the average entertainer earns 10% or less of what other combat or crafting professions can earn in the same amount of playtime. Interested in becoming wealthy? Don't be an entertainer!

We should be able to mindlessly grind like rest of the team?! Right? So why not make Entertainer mission payouts a little higher.. so they are worth considering? Hey, you could even make a collection out of it.. if you are dreamy like me. But, baseline; they could pay better so we can participate in the economy. We just want pretty dresses and shiny things like everyone else!

A little more AMBITIOUS:
At a certain point in time on R3 I was interested in seeing how Entertainers could participate in theme park content. Including quests for them and giving them the immersion and adventure other professions experience galivanting around the galaxy!
PART ONE OF THIS:
Entertainer specific quest lines should exist for some of the pre-existing content in the game. Entertainer mains should be challenged and committed to accomplish these quest lines. The reward?

THE REWARD: The reward would be trinkets and repeatable quests. Repeatable quests that make the buffs more DANK! As an entertainer main I would love to get a 5hr buff from a repeatable theme park quest and then come to the cantina and advertise that I am giving the DANKEST Kinetic Resistance Buff on the server!

PART TWO OF THIS:
Collections, Theme Parks, and Questlines should give us dope items to show off, titles for specific instruments, and swag!

This is not just talk, I have done some homework and would be willing to do more. I wrote an entire entertainer theme park questline with mechanics and dialogue and options! NO LIE! Check it out here: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1vl39DvXJO6od_-uWP2kIKbtgzvdrJhhn0kIWkSyAgSk/edit?usp=sharing

I am more than just talk here..

I want to SEE ENTERTAINER BECOME GREAT AGAIN!
 
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While overall i am 100% onboard with most of this proposal, i would argue that dialing back entertainer buff potencies only to implement tapes the make up for them seems like a recipe that may cause current entertainers to leave due to their buffs now being weakened as well as discourage new entertainers from taking up the profession due to not being able to reach their full potential.

Rather than nerfing buffs to make tapes viable, i would propose that entertainera tapes would instead augment their performances. For example, Enhancement tapes could be used to increase the tick rate of buffs similar to the pulse bracelet in order to increase the rate entertainers are able to give their buffs or perhaps could extend the maximum duration of a 20pt entertainer's buffs. Say a fully taped entertainer can increase their buff rate to an additional 5 minutes to their tick rate or increase the maximum duration of their buffs to 6 hours. New instruments could be added that require an increased Knowledge skill to play (though i definitely see the difficulty of adding new instrumental music to the game and how that may nigh impossible without using already existing in-game music/flourishes), or perhaps new dancer items.

Overall, rather than change how entertainers currently work to make skill tapes viable, i would rather suggest that entertainer skill tapes be used to augment their performance in order to further specialize.
 
I really like the whole post, specially the part about tapes. Pre-cu entertainers would pay a fortune to cap their mind dance and music enhancements to get the best mind buffs possible, then everyone who wanted the best buffs would go to them. It opens a way for ents to get some gear and maximize their effectiveness while providing buffs, personally i would make tapes increase the max points available to buff people so lets say a maxed taped ent would have maybe 30 points instead of 20 just as an example. That would not hurt people who just started as an ent but instead give more value to those who put the effort , so min maxers like me would pay an extra for these buffs.
 
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Sure, additive is always a lot more attractive. I was trying to be conservative in presentation as to not just push the stat ceiling TOO high. But, however it balances it out I think we are all in agreement here.

I am curious for more opinion and feedback.

I truly believe that this is a special profession in a game that always valued the economic (crafters), non-combat (doctors), and social (ents) professions in ways that other games never really captured.
 
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I like some of the post, but I also think some parts of it are a little too dialed in on making too many changes. Honestly I maxed my Ent first cause it's really easy and takes almost 0 credit investment if you befriend other Ent mains. While I never would be against more end game gear for my Ent. I personally think right now they are fun to play and easy to play, changing things too much could drift really far really fast from the easy pick up and play style of an Ent just talking to people to learn.

Overall the currant systems, make me decent passive income especially depending on who you're giving buffs out. A really good weekend of buffing could make 5x as much as a slow day and it's really easy to do buffing and make tips.
(I know there is a talk going on about credits so I think that shouldn't play a big roll right now with changes to Ent. Until the Devs fully figure out how they want to shape the credit flow)

Still think a lot of what the OP said on expanding or brining back some of the cool end-game stuff to go for as an Ent. But to be fair the way it's setup right now makes it really really easy to pick up and start doing. I also don't see anything wrong with people having their own Doc/Dancer to do self/guild buffing.

If you played during the drop of the 3rd character slot, I think a lot of people during that time were using their Ents Master to run the quest cause you could master more Masters on Ent getting all 4 , ID,Dance,Music,Ent . So more things like that would be cool, but for how little I had to put into my Master Ent to make them, play time and credits. It might be a bit odd if my 4 master ID is more useful in a quest then someone with like max luck gear/etc.
 
Darkish said:
I like some of the post, but I also think some parts of it are a little too dialed in on making too many changes. Honestly I maxed my Ent first cause it's really easy and takes almost 0 credit investment if you befriend other Ent mains. While I never would be against more end game gear for my Ent. I personally think right now they are fun to play and easy to play, changing things too much could drift really far really fast from the easy pick up and play style of an Ent just talking to people to learn.

Overall the currant systems, make me decent passive income especially depending on who you're giving buffs out. A really good weekend of buffing could make 5x as much as a slow day and it's really easy to do buffing and make tips.
(I know there is a talk going on about credits so I think that shouldn't play a big roll right now with changes to Ent. Until the Devs fully figure out how they want to shape the credit flow)

Still think a lot of what the OP said on expanding or brining back some of the cool end-game stuff to go for as an Ent. But to be fair the way it's setup right now makes it really really easy to pick up and start doing. I also don't see anything wrong with people having their own Doc/Dancer to do self/guild buffing.

If you played during the drop of the 3rd character slot, I think a lot of people during that time were using their Ents Master to run the quest cause you could master more Masters on Ent getting all 4 , ID,Dance,Music,Ent . So more things like that would be cool, but for how little I had to put into my Master Ent to make them, play time and credits. It might be a bit odd if my 4 master ID is more useful in a quest then someone with like max luck gear/etc.
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Easy to pick up, easy to master, easy to quit.

Darkish, there are some people who play this game (maybe more than just me) who are here for the non-combat classes. The original magic of SWG was the non-combat professions. SWG combat is not revolutionary, fast paced, or exciting. I am sorry there are a dozen tab target MMO's out there with larger communities, more content, and better populations. We come to SWG for different reasons.

I can't help but fundamentally disagree with the entirety of your post. As a player who has 50 days of play time on a main toon that has never killed a single mob, crafted a single item, or shot a ship in space... who is known to not AFK on an alt while buffing for "side hustle"... Consider that there are others like me who want to make a living as an entertainer.

I have seen beloved Cantina Icons on R3 come and go (myself included) and it all boils down to an abundance of competition from alt toons and pocket buffers.

If you want the cantina to thrive with personalities that are At the Keyboard, who care about the necessary break from the grind the cantina provides, and bring life to the Galaxy.. you need to make the game enjoyable for them too.

These changes while numerous, ambitious, and complicated are what is required to raise the bar from a week of AFK grinding in the cantina to making an adventure for serious players.
 
teekismcgeekis said:
Easy to pick up, easy to master, easy to quit.

Darkish, there are some people who play this game (maybe more than just me) who are here for the non-combat classes. The original magic of SWG was the non-combat professions. SWG combat is not revolutionary, fast paced, or exciting. I am sorry there are a dozen tab target MMO's out there with larger communities, more content, and better populations. We come to SWG for different reasons.

I can't help but fundamentally disagree with the entirety of your post. As a player who has 50 days of play time on a main toon that has never killed a single mob, crafted a single item, or shot a ship in space... who is known to not AFK on an alt while buffing for "side hustle"... Consider that there are others like me who want to make a living as an entertainer.

I have seen beloved Cantina Icons on R3 come and go (myself included) and it all boils down to an abundance of competition from alt toons and pocket buffers.

If you want the cantina to thrive with personalities that are At the Keyboard, who care about the necessary break from the grind the cantina provides, and bring life to the Galaxy.. you need to make the game enjoyable for them too.

These changes while numerous, ambitious, and complicated are what is required to raise the bar from a week of AFK grinding in the cantina to making an adventure for serious players.
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Sorry, but I guess we just have different views on the matter. Even though I agreed with some of your points. My overall statement was more maybe we don't make a ton of changes to the easy social class so people who don't want to play a complex non-combat profession like crafting have a easier playstyle option like Ent. Which it is currently.

If you're saying Ents are quitting Enting cause it's "not fun enough/good enough/lucrative enough" I just don't believe that. My Ent the character I MAXED before I MAXED a combat character. Kinda making me an Ent main too... since I have way more hours on that character. Half of the fun I think of the Ent class was the relaxed nature of it just hanging out I could multi-task and handle things irl while gaming and chatting. Which while I can understand isn't what everyone does when Enting, I think a decent amount do in one way or another preform a relaxed version of offering buffs and info.

The reason combat classes are considered a "main" is cause SWG fundamentally isn't a game based around Dancers and Docs, its about combat and those classes help in a passive way that is insanely amazing and no other game to date matches it. With both providing a second way to play the game in a more social mode. I never played live and most of my time in SWG is with R3, I do know during live "classic" Ent/Doc buffs were crazy strong.

People have lives and people will come and go, I'm sure there are many who will come back when they have time or want too. That's a perk of the class being so easy to pick up someone can "master" it in a few days and be a decent Ent forever. Like I said before I can agree having a higher skill ceiling, and more gear would be good so I'm not sure why you're disagreeing 100% with me.

While I can fully agree the Dancer missions aren't the solution, I don't think the class needs sweeping changes. I think it just needs more people/events. Some of my most enjoyable times were going and hangout at events and doing short buffs there outside of a Cant. Of course this is only my personal view on the matter. I'm not saying you're "wrong" in anyway, just more I don't fully agree an have my own view on it.
Also I personally did all my buffing ATK, having two monitors and a modern computer makes it super easy to run 2 clients of the game. I refer to the credit gain as a passive side hustle cause the game is fundamentally based around combat so of course combat should have a way of making the most credits. I personally even made more credits on my Ent than combat "tbh cause I suck and don't do space missions" but that's just me. My combat character is fully geared tho and most of that came from credits my Ent made.
 
Darkish said:
Sorry, but I guess we just have different views on the matter. Even though I agreed with some of your points. My overall statement was more maybe we don't make a ton of changes to the easy social class so people who don't want to play a complex non-combat profession like crafting have a easier playstyle option like Ent. Which it is currently.

If you're saying Ents are quitting Enting cause it's "not fun enough/good enough/lucrative enough" I just don't believe that. My Ent the character I MAXED before I MAXED a combat character. Kinda making me an Ent main too... since I have way more hours on that character. Half of the fun I think of the Ent class was the relaxed nature of it just hanging out I could multi-task and handle things irl while gaming and chatting. Which while I can understand isn't what everyone does when Enting, I think a decent amount do in one way or another preform a relaxed version of offering buffs and info.

The reason combat classes are considered a "main" is cause SWG fundamentally isn't a game based around Dancers and Docs, its about combat and those classes help in a passive way that is insanely amazing and no other game to date matches it. With both providing a second way to play the game in a more social mode. I never played live and most of my time in SWG is with R3, I do know during live "classic" Ent/Doc buffs were crazy strong.

People have lives and people will come and go, I'm sure there are many who will come back when they have time or want too. That's a perk of the class being so easy to pick up someone can "master" it in a few days and be a decent Ent forever. Like I said before I can agree having a higher skill ceiling, and more gear would be good so I'm not sure why you're disagreeing 100% with me.

While I can fully agree the Dancer missions aren't the solution, I don't think the class needs sweeping changes. I think it just needs more people/events. Some of my most enjoyable times were going and hangout at events and doing short buffs there outside of a Cant. Of course this is only my personal view on the matter. I'm not saying you're "wrong" in anyway, just more I don't fully agree an have my own view on it.
Also I personally did all my buffing ATK, having two monitors and a modern computer makes it super easy to run 2 clients of the game. I refer to the credit gain as a passive side hustle cause the game is fundamentally based around combat so of course combat should have a way of making the most credits. I personally even made more credits on my Ent than combat "tbh cause I suck and don't do space missions" but that's just me. My combat character is fully geared tho and most of that came from credits my Ent made.
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The game is not focused on Combat at all. There would be no combat without crafted gear from non-combat toons. The harder content and the best gear would not be possible without non-combat toon buffs. A majority of combat is made entirely possible thanks to the social and trades focused professions.

A serious crafter, PvP, or PvE focused player needs entertainers.

An entertainer is not an accessory to the game. Mechanically speaking they are vital which is why people make alts because they need the buffs when they need the buffs. If it was an accessory most would go without... and yet people come to the cantina or login their alt.

I have played Entertainer in every iteration of this game, from live precu - shutdown and every emulator after that.

Pre-cu entertainers had tapes. NGE entertainers had collection jewelry. This server is a "best hits" of SWG mechanics so implement the best of both worlds. Make tapes work (they exist they just do nothing at the moment), add collection items and other trinkets for improved buffing (like NGE had)...
 
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A note that the entertainer heroic jewelry will be re-added to the game once heroics return and will include some perk for the set bonuses (either/and additional buff builder points and/or strength of buffs).

This is not a comment for or against anything else here, just making sure that’s being considered.
 
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Aconite said:
A note that the entertainer heroic jewelry will be re-added to the game once heroics return and will include some perk for the set bonuses (either/and additional buff builder points and/or strength of buffs).

This is not a comment for or against anything else here, just making sure that’s being considered.
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Will this be tied to combat content or the Build-A-Buff system?
 
teekismcgeekis said:
Will this be tied to combat content or the Build-A-Buff system?
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Heroic jewelry comes from heroics. So either a combat alt will need to complete the heroics or you'll need to buy them second hand. Certain content (e.g. GCW City Invasions which will come with 2.0) has entertainer-specific questlines and content, but heroics, unfortunately, don't. Although I'd suggest the exchange for buffing a group for heroics could be an exchange of tokens.

I know this isn't a good answer, it just is the answer. But that is notwithstanding anything else you've suggested here which I think are great possibilities. I'd be open to slating some rework for tapes, etc. for entertainers into the pub 1.1 benchmarks, so if this can get more concrete with more consensus, I'll be happy to work with your Social Professions Senator @Dokblock to move forward with ideation and implementation.
 
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Aconite said:
Heroic jewelry comes from heroics. So either a combat alt will need to complete the heroics or you'll need to buy them second hand. Certain content (e.g. GCW City Invasions which will come with 2.0) has entertainer-specific questlines and content, but heroics, unfortunately, don't. Although I'd suggest the exchange for buffing a group for heroics could be an exchange of tokens.

I know this isn't a good answer, it just is the answer. But that is notwithstanding anything else you've suggested here which I think are great possibilities. I'd be open to slating some rework for tapes, etc. for entertainers into the pub 1.1 benchmarks, so if this can get more concrete with more consensus, I'll be happy to work with your Social Professions Senator @Dokblock to move forward with ideation and implementation.
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Great answers Aconite, I will come up with a more concrete tape specific thread.

Hopefully the discussion there can be productive and @Dokblock can get involved.

Always a pleasure,
Din
 
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Dokblock said:
Im already working with Aconite for some entertainer buff bonuses. I dont agree with entertainers needing tapes in this version of SWG. I think jewelry is the much better option.
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These options are not mutually exclusive. I think it would be very easy implement both tapes and jewelry. There are enough categories of buffing stats in the Build-A-Buff that there would be plenty of room for both tapes and wearables.

This is Pre-CU after all and Pre-CU had taped entertainers.
 
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