Open SF and Bounties

shadow1911890 · Jun 22, 2024

Is there really a point to bounty hunting anyone if they can have healers come up and just heal non stop? we had a group on a bounty and 2-3 healers came and kept him alive. What is the point of being able to hunt someone if everyone can heal them. This needs to change. I am sure I will get push from those who use the system to never die. Cant go SF in combat

Dagis · Jun 22, 2024

This a very complicated problem.

I personally think the solution would be better to prevent people flagging whilst they have a bh tef (perhaps even extend it to 10 mins - I am not sure of current timer exactly)

But the reason it was implemented was to prevent people cheesing in group PvP.

The side effect seems people are cheesing in bounties now instead.

KayDroma · Jun 22, 2024

There is a clear solution to your problem. Flag up special forces and kill the healers. Even bring more (non BH) players to help you.

There was no simple solution to the issue previously. The devs opted for the lesser of the two evils by seeking to save group pvp moving forward.

Dagis · Jun 22, 2024

KayDroma said:
There is a clear solution to your problem. Flag up special forces and kill the healers. Even bring more (non BH) players to help you.

There was no simple solution to the issue previously. The devs opted for the lesser of the two evils by seeking to save group pvp moving forward.

i think the issue more is that a player can easily flag up for pvp when they previously wasn’t pvp’ing.

I think the best solution is to limit it been able to flag whilst been engaged with a bounty.

Or something I was in discussion with another senator perhaps flagging stops you moving or using skills for 30-45 seconds.

KayDroma · Jun 22, 2024

Personally I’m not really sure what the issue is.

Player is being bounty hunted. Player calls for special forces backup and has to be SF themselves for any healing. This clearly leaves anyone helping them vulnerable to attack aswell.

If this is seen as unfair, and fairness is what is being sought, then group bounties are out by definition lol.

You hunt a mark who is or goes special forces (and therefore can be attacked by ANYONE in the opposing faction)… other people can get involved. On both sides. It works both ways. Should not be easy to hunt a mark who is special forces in a group of other special forces

Kazhar · Jun 22, 2024

Dagis said:
i think the issue more is that a player can easily flag up for pvp when they previously wasn’t pvp’ing.

I think the best solution is to limit it been able to flag whilst been engaged with a bounty.

Or something I was in discussion with another senator perhaps flagging stops you moving or using skills for 30-45 seconds.

This is actually a great solution, while under bh tef (that last 5 mins but could even be increased to 10) you cant flag SF, that also solves the problem of bounties momentarily breaking combat and going sf to hide inside a base. And responding to Kay group bounties are mean to be like that for jedi because it is the alpha class so its not out by definition it is a fair fight. I was one of the people healing the bounty target last night only to show Ornj and everyone watching how stupid and boring the new tef system is.

KayDroma · Jun 22, 2024

Kazhar said:
This is actually a great solution, while under bh tef (that last 5 mins but could even be increased to 10) you cant flag SF, that also solves the problem of bounties momentarily breaking combat and going sf to hide inside a base. And responding to Kay group bounties are mean to be like that for jedi because it is the alpha class so its not out by definition it is a fair fight. I was one of the people healing the bounty target last night only to show Ornj and everyone watching how stupid and boring the new tef system is.

First of all why should we not be able to flag special forces just because of a bounty hunter recently attacking me. Just why? This is a really really bad idea, I wonder if it could be exploited in anyway

In principle I have no idea why people think being BH'ed should in anyway give priority over the fundamental pvp special forces flag. It should not. At best it should be equal as it is now, lets give some respect to the actual GCW SF Flag and not just to bounty hunters for real.

Clear counter for going SF and hiding inside a base. Flag up, kill the turrets and enter yourself. Don't even need to do that if same faction.

Group bounties are not just for Jedi are they, I have been hunted, as I am sure you have, many many times as a normie by 3 BH so again, this is not an argument unless you stop group BHing normies.

If you are healing a bounty target you are flagged up and pinging on terminal. By all means, please keep doing this, I actually see it encouraging more PvP and I look forward to the next time you do it so I can bring a team of flagged players to give the good news. Heck, we might even have a fight on our hands!

The alternative was far, far more stupid and boring. An even PvP fight which resulted in a non-attackable (as flagged combatant) Jedi walking into a group of 10 and killing a non-healable teammate (due to BH TEF) whilst their whole alive, active group just could only stand there, not heal and watch. That was completely stupid and the exact reason this was changed.

Dagis · Jun 22, 2024

KayDroma said:
First of all why should we not be able to flag special forces just because of a bounty hunter recently attacking me. Just why? This is a really really bad idea, I wonder if it could be exploited in anyway In principle I have no idea why people think being BH'ed should in anyway give priority over the fundamental pvp special forces flag. It should not. At best it should be equal as it is now, lets give some respect to the actual GCW SF Flag and not just to bounty hunters for real.

Clear counter for going SF and hiding inside a base. Flag up, kill the turrets and enter yourself. Don't even need to do that if same faction.

Group bounties are not just for Jedi are they, I have been hunted, as I am sure you have, many many times as a normie by 3 BH so again, this is not an argument unless you stop group BHing normies.

If you are healing a bounty target you are flagged up and pinging on terminal. By all means, please keep doing this, I actually see it encouraging more PvP and I look forward to the next time you do it so I can bring a team of flagged players to give the good news. Heck, we might even have a fight on our hands!

The alternative was far, far more stupid and boring. An even PvP fight which resulted in a non-attackable (as flagged combatant) Jedi walking into a group of 10 and killing a non-healable teammate (due to BH TEF) whilst their whole alive, active group just could only stand there, not heal and watch. That was completely stupid and the exact reason this was changed.

i think your only thinking of this from your perspective.

If the lock out timer lasted for 10 mins or you got forced to not use any skills for 30-45 secs or move when you flag up.

I think this not a huge issue unless someone keeps your engaged forever, how on earth would it interfere with your game?

I am not sure I see many instances where this could be easily exploited.

Once your SF (which you likely would be the second your looking for pvp) it’s no longer an issue.

what you have to remember this needs to remain “Fun” for all players

Kazhar · Jun 22, 2024

KayDroma said:
First of all why should we not be able to flag special forces just because of a bounty hunter recently attacking me. Just why? This is a really really bad idea, I wonder if it could be exploited in anyway In principle I have no idea why people think being BH'ed should in anyway give priority over the fundamental pvp special forces flag. It should not. At best it should be equal as it is now, lets give some respect to the actual GCW SF Flag and not just to bounty hunters for real.

Clear counter for going SF and hiding inside a base. Flag up, kill the turrets and enter yourself. Don't even need to do that if same faction.

Group bounties are not just for Jedi are they, I have been hunted, as I am sure you have, many many times as a normie by 3 BH so again, this is not an argument unless you stop group BHing normies.

If you are healing a bounty target you are flagged up and pinging on terminal. By all means, please keep doing this, I actually see it encouraging more PvP and I look forward to the next time you do it so I can bring a team of flagged players to give the good news. Heck, we might even have a fight on our hands!

The alternative was far, far more stupid and boring. An even PvP fight which resulted in a non-attackable (as flagged combatant) Jedi walking into a group of 10 and killing a non-healable teammate (due to BH TEF) whilst their whole alive, active group just could only stand there, not heal and watch. That was completely stupid and the exact reason this was changed.

You know exactly why stop playing dumb on the forums, people is exploiting the new tef system more than the old one because its flaws are very obvious, and currently bhing is the only pvp you are going to get for a long time so if you want to get 0 pvp instead of 0.5 then yea sure dont change it at all. Making it so you cant flag sf while under a bh tef has no downsides because if you were actively pvping this would not affect you at all, hell not even pvping but already SF looking for pvp or rebuffing etc... This solves the obvious exploiting mechanics that are happening

KayDroma · Jun 22, 2024

Dagis said:
i think your only thinking of this from your perspective.

If the lock out timer lasted for 10 mins or you got forced to not use any skills for 30-45 secs or move when you flag up.

I think this not a huge issue unless someone keeps your engaged forever, how on earth would it interfere with your game?

I am not sure I see many instances where this could be easily exploited.

Once your SF (which you likely would be the second your looking for pvp) it’s no longer an issue.

what you have to remember this needs to remain “Fun” for all players

2 clear ways spring to mind

1. Control of targets flag. A Bh could engage, disengage, reengage repeatedly, forcing a player not to be able to go special forces. That is bad design.

2. Control of a targets position. Certain areas can only be entered special forces (bases/static bases/restuss). Bases in particular have important timers requiring you to be SF for 5mins before counter cap.

It’s completely overkill and ridiculous. Please remember the main reason this was changed was the active and regular exploitation, of both sides, of the TEF mechanic.

Why should a BH Tef gain special privilege over the principle PvP flag?

Is it fun for the target to be 4v1ed? Maybe sometimes. But not always.

KayDroma · Jun 22, 2024

Kazhar said:
You know exactly why stop playing dumb on the forums, people is exploiting the new tef system more than the old one because its flaws are very obvious, and currently bhing is the only pvp you are going to get for a long time so if you want to get 0 pvp instead of 0.5 then yea sure dont change it at all. Making it so you cant flag sf while under a bh tef has no downsides because if you were actively pvping this would not affect you at all, hell not even pvping but already SF looking for pvp or rebuffing etc... This solves the obvious exploiting mechanics that are happening

I perosonally have been away, but as I said. Please do keep flagging and “exploiting” the current system until you realise people WILL come for you and kill you as you continue to ping on the terminals.

KayDroma · Jun 22, 2024

Dagis said:
i think your only thinking of this from your perspective.

If the lock out timer lasted for 10 mins or you got forced to not use any skills for 30-45 secs or move when you flag up.

I think this not a huge issue unless someone keeps your engaged forever, how on earth would it interfere with your game?

I am not sure I see many instances where this could be easily exploited.

Once your SF (which you likely would be the second your looking for pvp) it’s no longer an issue.

what you have to remember this needs to remain “Fun” for all players

I put this to you then

If I am flagged special forces, I cannot be attacked/TEFed by a BH during that flag or for 10mins after. To mirror what you are suggesting. Would you support that?

Dagis · Jun 22, 2024

KayDroma said:
2 clear ways spring to mind

1. Control of targets flag. A Bh could engage, disengage, reengage repeatedly, forcing a player not to be able to go special forces. That is bad design.

2. Control of a targets position. Certain areas can only be entered special forces (bases/static bases/restuss). Bases in particular have important timers requiring you to be SF for 5mins before counter cap.

It’s completely overkill and ridiculous. Please remember the main reason this was changed was the active and regular exploitation, of both sides, of the TEF mechanic.

Why should a BH Tef gain special privilege over the principle PvP flag?

Is it fun for the target to be 4v1ed? Maybe sometimes. But not always.

Ok let me rephrase it, when do you envision this would actually happen?

the enemy team is going to take your mission hold it for x number of hours / days to then prevent you flagging at that strategic attack?

I just not sure I buy it.

You can easily circumvent this situation.

I do agree with you about that 4v1 isn’t going to be that fun. But that is the devs vision for attacking and controlling Jedi regardless of mine or your feelings on the matter.

That Jedi then to flag sf (as currently) to avoid being killed really just takes away from what BH are supposed to be able to do.

KayDroma · Jun 22, 2024

Dagis said:
Ok let me rephrase it, when do you envision this would actually happen?

the enemy team is going to take your mission hold it for x number of hours / days to then prevent you flagging at that strategic attack?

I just not sure I buy it.

You can easily circumvent this situation.

I do agree with you about that 4v1 isn’t going to be that fun. But that is the devs vision for attacking and controlling Jedi regardless of mine or your feelings on the matter.

That Jedi then to flag sf (as currently) to avoid being killed really just takes away from what BH are supposed to be able to do.

My friend, most of the time it happens is when a known player is online and pvping... then someone will take their bounty for next fight. In terms of any potential exploitation, I cannot say when it would happen, just its a possibility, 2 immediate ways without even considering it in finite detail.

My point in terms of this is that its a providing an advantage mechanic to the BH tef over the GCW SF whereas I just want them to be equal.

colt45 · Jun 22, 2024

Shout out to Kay's original PV where he specifically specified that the hunted target should not be able to receive heals, only give outgoing heals and buffs.
Which plenty of us were fine upvoting if that was the case, and then like a month later we get the tef mechanic changes and it's trash.

Open - PvP - Being able to heal others through BH TEF

EDITED FOR CLARITY PROPOSAL: As the TARGET of a BOUNTY HUNTER MISSION, You are now able to heal other players normally. You still CANNOT receive heals from other players.

swgr.org

Dagis · Jun 22, 2024

KayDroma said:
My friend, most of the time it happens is when a known player is online and pvping... then someone will take their bounty for next fight. In terms of any potential exploitation, I cannot say when it would happen, just its a possibility, 2 immediate ways without even considering it in finite detail.

My point in terms of this is that its a providing an advantage mechanic to the BH tef over the GCW SF whereas I just want them to be equal.

But it doesn’t have an advantage over.

If your flagged for pvp nothing is effected. If you’re running around not flagged as SF then the BH isn’t interfering with any SF PvP, unless they have uncanny timing.

But again I don’t believe that it would be easy for a player to set up an attack to block someone going SF intentionally.

If you want to pvp just flag up in a house and nothing the BH can do to stop you.

I am not sure why you see this as a negative except that the BH can fight you 4v1 and you don’t get support or help.

KayDroma · Jun 22, 2024

Dagis said:
But it doesn’t have an advantage over.

If your flagged for pvp nothing is effected. If you’re running around not flagged as SF then the BH isn’t interfering with any SF PvP, unless they have uncanny timing.

But again I don’t believe that it would be easy for a player to set up an attack to block someone going SF intentionally.

If you want to pvp just flag up in a house and nothing the BH can do to stop you.

I am not sure why you see this as a negative except that the BH can fight you 4v1 and you don’t get support or help.

You might not get support or help. But god damnit I am a Imperial/Rebel in the Star Wars Universe and if a Bounty Hunter attacks me, I will get on that comm link and call my damn friends for help lol.

Chupa clearly you know where I stand on that suggestion as the author of that PV - I think its a good solution too

elchapodan · Jun 23, 2024

I agree with Rohlan, actually. Flagging up immediately after getting BH TEF’d just to receive heals or exploit some SF mechanic against the target goes against the spirit of the original PV. We didn’t want BH mechanics interfering with SF mechanics originally, it makes no sense to allow the opposite to occur now. Put a timer to prevent flagging up if the target wasn’t already in the process or flagging up or overt before the TEF starts.

10 minutes sounds like more than enough time.

ornj · Jun 23, 2024

Acknowledge that the current system isn't perfect or working exactly as intended. Short-term prevention of flagging SF is a bandaid, and one that may cause other headaches, but makes sense as a temporary solution.

I'd want to make that block timer something like 1-2 minutes though. Longer than the combat timer, but short enough that if someone actually does escape then they can flag up if they needed to for whatever reason. Eventually, the game is going to have more accessible PvP autoflag zones like Restuss, and so no solution like this will be foolproof.

A group TEF system is probably better, but it comes with its own set of problems, and the devil is in the details. Open to exploring that at some point though.

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Open SF and Bounties

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Open - PvP - Being able to heal others through BH TEF

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