PvP Flagging Update

Dust906 · Oct 17, 2021

The following proposal would allow a combatant player to make the choice to attack a special forces player to flag up by attacking, instead of using the /pvp command.

ProtoPhoenix · Oct 17, 2021

I'm not particularly fond of being flagged and letting them have the advantage of first shot. Tho it wouldn't be much different than a bounty I suppose.

Dust906 · Oct 17, 2021

ProtoPhoenix said:
I'm not particularly fond of being flagged and letting them have the advantage of first shot. Tho it wouldn't be much different than a bounty I suppose.

This change probably would not benefit the lone player that wants to gank players or 1vs1

ProtoPhoenix · Oct 17, 2021

Dust906 said:
This change probably would not benefit the lone player that wants to gank players or 1vs1

Also insta flagging like this makes pvp near a cloner an absolute mess.

DJGonk · Oct 17, 2021

ProtoPhoenix said:
I'm not particularly fond of being flagged and letting them have the advantage of first shot. Tho it wouldn't be much different than a bounty I suppose.

Building off of this, allowing such a systen where combatant has the chance of first shot would mean you would see groups of people flagged as combatant and all surprise attacking any SF they come across. Though the initial idea isnt bad perse, it would have high potential for being abused by roving groups of combatants

Dust906 · Oct 17, 2021

ProtoPhoenix said:
Also insta flagging like this makes pvp near a cloner an absolute mess.

Assuming that you are PvP'ing with a group of already SF players, i don't see the "mess". If someone wants to attack and die , they can.

DJGonk said:
Building off of this, allowing such a systen where combatant has the chance of first shot would mean you would see groups of people flagged as combatant and all surprise attacking any SF they come across. Though the initial idea isnt bad perse, it would have high potential for being abused by roving groups of combatants

you can only do this one time, assuming you found a person SF and alone. once said players attack you , they are then SF.

Maximilian · Oct 17, 2021

hello discord noobs

Dust906 · Oct 17, 2021

ProtoPhoenix said:
Also insta flagging like this makes pvp near a cloner an absolute mess.

circling back to cloner "issue" and combatants should be entitled to get back into the fight quicker, and if they want to sacrifice their gear to do it, i'd welcome it.

DJGonk · Oct 17, 2021

Dust906 said:
Assuming that you are PvP'ing with a group of already SF players, i don't see the "mess". If someone wants to attack and die , they can.

you can only do this one time, assuming you found a person SF and alone. once said players attack you , they are then SF.

They may be SF by the time youre able to attack, but a 3 man team of a rifleman, SL, and someone with a knockdown could almost insta-incap any SF player by timing the KD with Called Shot and Sniper Shot.

Dust906 · Oct 17, 2021

DJGonk said:
They may be SF by the time youre able to attack, but a 3 man team of a rifleman, SL, and someone with a knockdown could almost insta-incap any SF player by timing the KD with Called Shot and Sniper Shot.

it will then take them 5 minutes to flag down, and they will be where you last died, to alert YOUR friends to come back. The entire situation you just explained, enabled 3+ players to flag up, where they might have not, and you would have continued to stand alone.

PhilmorALF · Oct 17, 2021

Why not have a willing combatant entering into PVP on the fly have a 10-15 second flashing of their name showing they are about to go Overt to give the 'Targer' some sort of notice - then there is a fight or flight decision that can be made..and also make for a good chase scene..

Dust906 · Oct 17, 2021

PhilmorALF said:
Why not have a willing combatant entering into PVP on the fly have a 10-15 second flashing of their name showing they are about to go Overt to give the 'Targer' some sort of notice - then there is a fight or flight decision that can be made..and also make for a good chase scene..

like was previously stated, a bounty hunter has this exact mechanic, and can do the same thing as i am proposing. if you are already flagged up to PvP, one should have to be aware of their surroundings in war.

DJGonk · Oct 17, 2021

Dust906 said:
it will then take them 5 minutes to flag down, and they will be where you last died, to alert YOUR friends to come back. The entire situation you just explained, enabled 3+ players to flag up, where they might have not, and you would have continued to stand alone.

I dont think you understand the coordination to "alert YOUR friends."

Those friends you alert for back up would need to travel to get buffed and then travel to your location. Even if they forgo the buff to come straight to your location, 5 minutes is plenty of time get away. Not to mention that by just going into a house or other building, the 3 newly flagged players wouldnt even appear on the map or intel pad to be tracked. And even if your backup is able to get to the 3 players in time, they can stall the flag down timer by just staying on their speeder and driving away until they finish flagging down.

ProtoPhoenix · Oct 17, 2021

PhilmorALF said:
Why not have a willing combatant entering into PVP on the fly have a 10-15 second flashing of their name showing they are about to go Overt to give the 'Targer' some sort of notice - then there is a fight or flight decision that can be made..and also make for a good chase scene..

Isnt that what happens now?

Dust906 · Oct 17, 2021

DJGonk said:
I dont think you understand the coordination to "alert YOUR friends."

Those friends you alert for back up would need to travel to get buffed and then travel to your location. Even if they forgo the buff to come straight to your location, 5 minutes is plenty of time get away. Not to mention that by just going into a house or other building, the 3 newly flagged players wouldnt even appear on the map or intel pad to be tracked. And even if your backup is able to get to the 3 players in time, they can stall the flag down timer by just staying on their speeder and driving away until they finish flagging down.

why are you so far away and alone while SF ? do you know how the jedi system worked? you couldn't even play without your friends at one point.

DJGonk · Oct 17, 2021

ProtoPhoenix said:
Isnt that what happens now?

Its 30 seconds of flashing from Combatant to SF but yes this is the current system

DJGonk · Oct 17, 2021

Dust906 said:
why are you so far away and alone while SF ? do you know how the jedi system worked? you couldn't even play without your friends at one point.

Have you ever done the planetary control game? Youre not near shuttles or starports very often. Not to mention that some regions literally cant be flipped unless you sit there SF until the the factional presence raises on its own (im looking at you Vreni Island)

Dust906 · Oct 17, 2021

DJGonk said:
Have you ever done the planetary control game? Youre not near shuttles or starports very often. Not to mention that some regions literally cant be flipped unless you sit there SF until the the factional presence raises on its own (im looking at you Vreni Island)

you shouldn't be trying to flip regions alone. It takes much too long, not all planetary control zones listed under /gcw are even related to PvP. The entire score workup for that system would be enhanced by combatants flagging up to and actually killing SF players.

You would need a group of SF players to blind load into vreni island in this scenario to combat players already there, and those players would most likely be ganked at the shuttle.

the likelyhood that you will get a bigger group of combatants to fight a group of SF players is unlikely, unless you are caught in those niche situations where you go AWOL.

it is not the games responsibility to keep you safe when you do choose to go awol, and a galactic war scenario should reflect in this way, by being inviting of battle.

DJGonk · Oct 17, 2021

Dust906 said:
you shouldn't be trying to flip regions alone. It takes much too long, not all planetary control zones listed under /gcw are even related to PvP. The entire score workup for that system would be enhanced by combatants flagging up to and actually killing SF players.

You would need a group of SF players to blind load into vreni island in this scenario to combat players already there, and those players would most likely be ganked at the shuttle.

the likelyhood that you will get a bigger group of combatants to fight a group of SF players is unlikely, unless you are caught in those niche situations where you go AWOL.

it is not the games responsibility to keep you safe when you do choose to go awol, and a galactic war scenario should reflect in this way, by being inviting of battle.

1. Yes, you really shouldnt be flipping zones solo. But sometimes a job just has to be done. And Being SF to flip zone has nothing to do with PvP. You generate factional presence (from here dorth shall be reffered to as FP) just by being SF which in turn helps flip zones fasters. And though I cannot argue this in good faith due to lack of testing, but generating GCW points while SF increases the amount of factional presence and flips the zone faster. Combatants being able to immediately flag up does nothing but make zone flipping harder than it already can be as the moment they flag, their FP will overtake yours simply by presence alone. Factor in the previously stated set up with potential to insta-incap, and the attackers would easily undo all your progress due to increased FP from the player kill and the GCW also generated from it; potentially erasing all the progress made.

2. I wasnt using Vreni Island as a scenario. I was using it to prove the point that sometimes it is necessary to be SF and solo in order to take control of a region. But even in the scenario you suggest, you neglect to tale into account that Vreni Island is an ISLAND. Once the attackers gank whoever is SF, they can leisurely mount their speeders, begin flagging down, and just stay over the water where they cant be attacked by any means.

3. If your suggestion of combatants being able to attack SF players were implemented, i can GURANTEE you would have groups of combatants roaming looking for SF players. Even if the SF defender were fully geared, a group of combatants could most likely take them down by the element of surprise and numbers alone.

4. Whether or not it is fitting for a "war scenario," you still have to balance the game like a game. SF already appear on the world map with a moving waypoint to every player regardless of faction affiliation or combat status from the GCW Factional Presence tab. Neutral entertainers in Mos Eisley can see exactly where SF players across Tatooine.

5. This is all failling to take into account the consequences that come with the ability for combatants to attack SF players. There would be no incentive to flag SF for PvP when being combatant grants you the ability to get a surprise attack that can immediately put a SF player at disadvantage. This is also failing to account for the change to officer rabks coming int he Phase 2.0 GCW update where it has been stated that Officers would pernanently by flagged for SF, exasterbating all the other issies brought up in this thread

Dust906 · Oct 17, 2021

DJGonk said:
1. Yes, you really shouldnt be flipping zones solo. But sometimes a job just has to be done. And Being SF to flip zone has nothing to do with PvP. You generate factional presence (from here dorth shall be reffered to as FP) just by being SF which in turn helps flip zones fasters. And though I cannot argue this in good faith due to lack of testing, but generating GCW points while SF increases the amount of factional presence and flips the zone faster. Combatants being able to immediately flag up does nothing but make zone flipping harder than it already can be as the moment they flag, their FP will overtake yours simply by presence alone. Factor in the previously stated set up with potential to insta-incap, and the attackers would easily undo all your progress due to increased FP from the player kill and the GCW also generated from it; potentially erasing all the progress made.

2. I wasnt using Vreni Island as a scenario. I was using it to prove the point that sometimes it is necessary to be SF and solo in order to take control of a region. But even in the scenario you suggest, you neglect to tale into account that Vreni Island is an ISLAND. Once the attackers gank whoever is SF, they can leisurely mount their speeders, begin flagging down, and just stay over the water where they cant be attacked by any means.

3. If your suggestion of combatants being able to attack SF players were implemented, i can GURANTEE you would have groups of combatants roaming looking for SF players. Even if the SF defender were fully geared, a group of combatants could most likely take them down by the element of surprise and numbers alone.

4. Whether or not it is fitting for a "war scenario," you still have to balance the game like a game. SF already appear on the world map with a moving waypoint to every player regardless of faction affiliation or combat status from the GCW Factional Presence tab. Neutral entertainers in Mos Eisley can see exactly where SF players across Tatooine.

5. This is all failling to take into account the consequences that come with the ability for combatants to attack SF players. There would be no incentive to flag SF for PvP when being combatant grants you the ability to get a surprise attack that can immediately put a SF player at disadvantage. This is also failing to account for the change to officer rabks coming int he Phase 2.0 GCW update where it has been stated that Officers would pernanently by flagged for SF, exasterbating all the other issies brought up in this thread

did you not play before combatant was even implemented ?
the entire goal here is to give combatants a way to join in on the fun and to attack and PvP with you. Not run away from PvP scenarios

every reason you gave was a reason to hide and be alone. Worrying about a group of combatants shows weakness imo.