Adjust Land Requirements for Placing Harvesters/Structures

ThunderVamp · Dec 26, 2021

When placing harvesters, the slighest hills or gradients can prevent the placing of a harvester in an otherwise perfect location. In cases like the image below there are 2 small hills in this area that are preventing the placement of harvesters in those sections, when a harvetser should realistically be able to be placed there. There are cases on planets that are already hard enough to find places to put harvesters, where the ground may have an incline that is not steep and could seem an ideal spot also, but the gradient is juuuuuust too much.

A small hill should not be a hindrance. Building a structure should take into account any ground modification/terraforming required as it logically should. Gradients of less than 40% should not prevent the placing of a structure. I mean, we can travel through hyperspace, we use repulsorlift technology to literally hover in midair, but we can't do something as basic as levelling a piece of land when we build on it? In the image below, we're not technologically capable of "bulldozing" those 2 small hills that are literally preventing placement of harvesters in that space? Or add some foundation on a slight slope to build on it? Isn't that essentially what's happening with the bunkers that are spawning on the 3rd character slot quest?

Mob nests also block far too much area from being buildable. Nests can spawn right next to already placed harvesters, again like you can see in the image below. It stands to reason harvesters should be able to be placed near nests.

Mandofett · Dec 27, 2021

juspar · Dec 31, 2021

Disagree on the nests, but some of the gradients that stop placement are pretty negligible. Would like to see the application of the logic a little less aggressive.

ThunderVamp · Jan 15, 2022

Take this as an example.

Placing harvesters, there's a large open area beside these harvesters that is perfect for placement. No nests in the way, a gentle slope, and a high concentration. That space is open because for some reason you can't build a harvester there:

But you CAN build a house there just fine:

What is the logic behind that?

It should be simple. Harvesters should follow the same build rules as houses. If a house can be built there, a harvester can be built there.

L600MAT · Jan 29, 2022

1, It is just the way the game is.

2, Houses have been modeled to adapt to certain terrain, this is why the ramps getting into them can vary in size.

3, Harvesters are not modeled the same and will only allow for little changes in ground gradients. The graphics model does not adapt like a house and personally, I think it would look daft if it did.

4, All resource spawns are random and this is just how it is. I know it would be nice to have access to every 90%+ location but the game needs variation. Nothing is ever perfect.

ThunderVamp · Jan 29, 2022

I'm aware of that. I remember this same situation on live also.

I'm saying alterations should be made. Adaptations. Look at the image in the post above yours. That's hardly even a gradient that should create a problem.

This is a flaw in the design. Just because that's how it is does not mean that's how it should be.

juspar · Jan 29, 2022

Houses have a deep footprint to allow them to be placed more places. I don't think harvesters need quite that, but it sure would be nice if they had more than just the surface structure to work with.

goopus · Feb 21, 2022

Harvesters are literally digging into the ground. It should be easier for them to plant than a giant building that instantiates a foundation on a whim. People continue to think of creative ideas that help a small portion of the demographic IMMENSELY who silently (& happily) carry the economy of the server.

These QOL ideas aren't really QOL. It can change a task from taking over an hour to taking 45 minutes. Changing resources 3x a week isn't rare at all. I spent 2 hours trying to find a place to drop harvesters because the first decent concentration was on an unplaceable flat terrain. Making little things that aren't important to the crafting schema while also not affecting anyone else's gameplay negatively is a simple win-win.

Drueric · Feb 22, 2022

Those places you say you cant place a harvester, that is only an issue for large harvesters. I bet you can still place personal harvesters on those spots just fine. Nests can be destroyed. I do it all the time. Otherwise I think its fine the way it is. Use smaller harvesters if you want to get that mineral or look for a better spot. You are an expert at doing that right?

Also, I notice that the image you have for the house and the image above are not the same locations. I can tell by the angle of the harvesters near you. They are different. You trying to trick us?

juspar · Feb 22, 2022

Drueric said:
Those places you say you cant place a harvester, that is only an issue for large harvesters. I bet you can still place personal harvesters on those spots just fine. Nests can be destroyed. I do it all the time. Otherwise I think its fine the way it is. Use smaller harvesters if you want to get that mineral or look for a better spot. You are an expert at doing that right?

Also, I notice that the image you have for the house and the image above are not the same locations. I can tell by the angle of the harvesters near you. They are different. You trying to trick us?

Its not only large harvesters. I'm not sure what your mind is tricking you into seeing, but those harvesters are facing the same way and it looks like the same place to me. I'm not sure what this attack achieves at all?

Does this image help illustrate it additionally?

The land up there is perfectly smooth, but at a very slight grade. Too much for the harvesters to go on.

ThunderVamp · Feb 22, 2022

Drueric said:
Those places you say you cant place a harvester, that is only an issue for large harvesters. I bet you can still place personal harvesters on those spots just fine. Nests can be destroyed. I do it all the time. Otherwise I think its fine the way it is. Use smaller harvesters if you want to get that mineral or look for a better spot. You are an expert at doing that right?

Also, I notice that the image you have for the house and the image above are not the same locations. I can tell by the angle of the harvesters near you. They are different. You trying to trick us?

The first image is a wide shot to show how little gradient in the ground there is that's being marked as unbuildable.

The second image is showing the same area, but with a house being buildable in that spot.

I've highlighted the relevant area in each pic to show the same tree, which you can also see the harvesters at.

But you already knew this and just wanna keep being you and keep being argumentative.

ThunderVamp · Feb 22, 2022

juspar said:
Its not only large harvesters. I'm not sure what your mind is tricking you into seeing, but those harvesters are facing the same way and it looks like the same place to me. I'm not sure what this attack achieves at all?

Does this image help illustrate it additionally?
View attachment 201

The land up there is perfectly smooth, but at a very slight grade. Too much for the harvesters to go on.

He just wants to keep being spiteful is all.

Drueric · Feb 22, 2022

ThunderVamp said:
He just wants to keep being spiteful is all.

You have no idea about what Im doing.

Drueric · Feb 22, 2022

juspar said:
Its not only large harvesters. I'm not sure what your mind is tricking you into seeing, but those harvesters are facing the same way and it looks like the same place to me. I'm not sure what this attack achieves at all?

Does this image help illustrate it additionally?
View attachment 201

The land up there is perfectly smooth, but at a very slight grade. Too much for the harvesters to go on.

Yeah I get that. I agree harvester should be able to have a bit more lee way when placing them on less than perfect terrain. But Im wondering about whats going on in this picture. 31 heavy harvesters..... probably all owned by one player and their alts. But I guess if the game allows you to exploit that, why not.. right?

Dzsuhi · Feb 22, 2022

Drueric said:
Yeah I get that. I agree harvester should be able to have a bit more lee way when placing them on less than perfect terrain. But Im wondering about whats going on in this picture. 31 heavy harvesters..... probably all owned by one player and their alts. But I guess if the game allows you to exploit that, why not.. right?

Just think a little and learn the game and you don't say inaccurate things. You can only have 3 character and that means 30.lot, so not a single player can place 31 harvester.. please learn the game before you answers anywhere..

Morfordus · Feb 22, 2022

You're placing the higher tiers harvesters, have you tried smaller ones? A house can be placed in any imaginable place in RL too, but enourmous pieces of technology for resources harvesting needs some special conditions

ThunderVamp · Feb 22, 2022

Morfordus said:
You're placing the higher tiers harvesters, have you tried smaller ones? A house can be placed in any imaginable place in RL too, but enourmous pieces of technology for resources harvesting needs some special conditions

But they're not enormous. They have a slightly smaller footprint than a small house. A large house obviously has a much larger footprint and a large house can be built in these spots. And as Goopus pointed out above, "Harvesters are literally digging into the ground. It should be easier for them to plant than a giant building that instantiates a foundation on a whim."

Morfordus · Feb 22, 2022

ThunderVamp said:
But they're not enormous. They have a slightly smaller footprint than a small house. A large house obviously has a much larger footprint and a large house can be built in these spots. And as Goopus pointed out above, "Harvesters are literally digging into the ground. It should be easier for them to plant than a giant building that instantiates a foundation on a whim."

That's not the isue, a house is somthing you can adapt to the terrain in rl, while an industrial system to extract gold from rocks needs special conditions, but you can extract gold manually from any place where it is with just some tools. I mean that industrial equipment is more difficult to adapt to the terrain, they could be placed with less problems than now, but not as easy than a house

juspar · Feb 22, 2022

Morfordus said:
That's not the isue, a house is somthing you can adapt to the terrain in rl, while an industrial system to extract gold from rocks needs special conditions, but you can extract gold manually from any place where it is with just some tools. I mean that industrial equipment is more difficult to adapt to the terrain, they could be placed with less problems than now, but not as easy than a house

First off this is not IRL. Second, IRL I work in a field that places "harvesters" on terrain all over the place, and we adapt the terrain to allow for our rigs. Thirdly, the suggestion is not that harvesters have the same flexibility as housing does, but that they simply have a little more than they do now: if the land is smooth but has a slight gradient, that should not impede the placement of the structure. Just tone down the rule set a little. So your final point is in agreement not dissent.

ThunderVamp · Feb 22, 2022

Morfordus said:
That's not the isue, a house is somthing you can adapt to the terrain in rl, while an industrial system to extract gold from rocks needs special conditions, but you can extract gold manually from any place where it is with just some tools. I mean that industrial equipment is more difficult to adapt to the terrain, they could be placed with less problems than now, but not as easy than a house

Which, if you read the original PV info I state:
"Small gradients, small hills, bumps in the landscape, mob nests, should not inhibit placement of harvesters to the degree that they do."

While ideally I think they should follow the same guidelines/rules as house placement (if you can build a house in the spot, you should be able to build a harvester), my request is to adjust the ruleset so it's not as restrictive as it is now. Those small gradients like the small hills in the original screenshot or the slight gradient in the others should not be the impediment that they are.

I mean, this isn't RL. This is a made up galaxy far far away where we routinely travel across the galaxy at FTL speeds, where our vehicles hover over the ground instead of touching it, where technology is light years ahead of what we have IRL, and yet we somehow can't figure out how to place a harvester on a patch of land that slopes slightly?