Introduction of Decay to Space Components.

Narmy · Jun 27, 2022

This Player voice will address three diffrent issues with regards to the introduction of decay to Space. Essentially a new stat may need to be added to all parts including Reverse Engineered Components called Condition. Each time a player launches with these parts the condtion will decrease by one tick. I suggest that the max condition be 200. This will mean a player can launch up to 200 times before the condtion hits 0. The proposal is as follows.

1) Player crafted components to decay and be destroyed once they hit condition 0. Even a player who uses mostly RE'd parts will still have some player crafted items. I myself use crafter droid interfaces and boosters as well as missile launchers and chaff launchers. As these are destroyed then they will need to be replaced. In effect these become something that the space game needs which is more consumables and as such will become a credit sink.

2) The crafted space component collections to be made repeatable. At present these are a one time collection and as such if they decay to a 0 condition and be destroyed a player would lose them for good unless they are able to buy the schematic or crafted part off another player. This will also help longer standing players who has crafted these schematics early on in the game where the resources to cap them where not available as they will be able to replace them with better crafted ones when resource quality improves.

3) Reverse Engineered Components will be able to be repaired fully to a 100% condition. Many RE parts can take a long time to finish and cost a player millions of credits to finish off. This repair will be carried out by a Shipwright. I Propose that a tool be introduced that will enable this to be done. Personally I would like to see this tool use a few diffrent resources as well as the original component in order to repair the part fully. Should this not be possible then a tool like the Component Analyser Tool that a SW will use to make an RE'd part. In order to battle credit generation from the sale of junk space loot then the tool would require x amounts of the level part in order to repair to full condtion ( i.e. a level 8 part Weapon would require 8 junk level 8 guns as well as the original part in order to fully repair the RE'd part.)

I would like to thank the space community and especially Philmor for his input with this proposal

Xrayaries · Jun 29, 2022

1st put a decay system in place
2nd allow SW to engineer durability for a ship parts. Kinda like a smuggler with armor.
Using looted parts to create durability panels 10% 20% and 40% based on the number of panels used. We can use the current RE tool for this it would be multi purpose. For a 10% panel you need 10 re lvl 5 parts. 20 would be 15 and 40 would be 10 lvl 7 or above parts.

This would take thousands of parts dropped on the chassis dealer out of the game and local credits would be dealt to SW. You could even add an engineered component in order to produce the durability panel expanding the immersive portion of the game between crafters.

Zohath · Jun 29, 2022

So there seems to be 2 conversations happening here at the same time. 1: ship/part decay system, and 2: how lucrative space farming is. I would like to toss in my 2 cents that changing either would be a bad idea for the game, but I do have an idea(no idea how to do it as I know nothing of programming/coding)

Decay idea. So it seems the main argument in the pro-decay idea is to make SW a more viable profession. While this initially sounds good, it runs into a wall. If there are more SW around, the competition for resources goes up, and thus the price of said resources goes up. Simultaneously the increased market competition drives market value of the products down. Taking hits on both sides will make for much narrower (and less appealing) profit margins. Add in that this would also make it substantially more difficult for an upstart SW to get themselves to a sustainable business. Combined I believe that while at first glance it sounds pretty, the long term effect would actually deter more would be SW than help.

As far as the space cred farm, while I will 100% admit my frustration at listening to a particular senator's ship go pew pew at a consistent rhythm while simultaneously watching them actively type on discord about how "they aren't really afk"...I don't think that 'killing the cred farm' is a good idea. I know for myself, and several others, farming creds in space is the only way we stay afloat. If chassis vendor prices are slashed or fixed spawns are removed or some such, it would have a huge negative impact on many players. I actually watched basically the same thing happen over on EMU Basilisk when they killed solo-groups (when they made mission payouts always split and distant party members receive 0.) When that happened, only those who already had tons and tons of creds really made it out unscathed. And with many players no longer able to easily farm up creds in a reasonable time, a lot of then just left.

What I always try to think about when it comes to changes like these, is the new player experience. If one were to start in a galaxy where only a handful of people who have been playing a long time, or can afford to play 10+ hours a day are the rock stars, and they've no means of even getting even close, they most likely won't stick around very long(as I also saw on EMU.

My personal "fix" idea (which I've no idea how to program) is to remove the ability to fire in space via macro, making it require a keystroke, and then limiting the number of shots that can be fired by a single keystroke (holding down the fire button) to a fixed number (20? 10?) If this could be effectively done, it would remove the ability to afk farm, or even tab over to trash talk on discord while still collecting space creds. Meanwhile this would not have a negative effect on the large majority of players that don't afk farm. Slapping space cred farm with a giant nerf only harms those who haven't and don't afk farm, while ensuring that those who have maintain a level of wealth that others now have to works several times harder and longer to achieve.

Please don't make things harder on the average player just because of the exploits of a few.

Just my 2 creds,
Zo

Narmy · Jun 29, 2022

Zohath said:
So there seems to be 2 conversations happening here at the same time. 1: ship/part decay system, and 2: how lucrative space farming is. I would like to toss in my 2 cents that changing either would be a bad idea for the game, but I do have an idea(no idea how to do it as I know nothing of programming/coding)

Decay idea. So it seems the main argument in the pro-decay idea is to make SW a more viable profession. While this initially sounds good, it runs into a wall. If there are more SW around, the competition for resources goes up, and thus the price of said resources goes up. Simultaneously the increased market competition drives market value of the products down. Taking hits on both sides will make for much narrower (and less appealing) profit margins. Add in that this would also make it substantially more difficult for an upstart SW to get themselves to a sustainable business. Combined I believe that while at first glance it sounds pretty, the long term effect would actually deter more would be SW than help.

As far as the space cred farm, while I will 100% admit my frustration at listening to a particular senator's ship go pew pew at a consistent rhythm while simultaneously watching them actively type on discord about how "they aren't really afk"...I don't think that 'killing the cred farm' is a good idea. I know for myself, and several others, farming creds in space is the only way we stay afloat. If chassis vendor prices are slashed or fixed spawns are removed or some such, it would have a huge negative impact on many players. I actually watched basically the same thing happen over on EMU Basilisk when they killed solo-groups (when they made mission payouts always split and distant party members receive 0.) When that happened, only those who already had tons and tons of creds really made it out unscathed. And with many players no longer able to easily farm up creds in a reasonable time, a lot of then just left.

What I always try to think about when it comes to changes like these, is the new player experience. If one were to start in a galaxy where only a handful of people who have been playing a long time, or can afford to play 10+ hours a day are the rock stars, and they've no means of even getting even close, they most likely won't stick around very long(as I also saw on EMU.

My personal "fix" idea (which I've no idea how to program) is to remove the ability to fire in space via macro, making it require a keystroke, and then limiting the number of shots that can be fired by a single keystroke (holding down the fire button) to a fixed number (20? 10?) If this could be effectively done, it would remove the ability to afk farm, or even tab over to trash talk on discord while still collecting space creds. Meanwhile this would not have a negative effect on the large majority of players that don't afk farm. Slapping space cred farm with a giant nerf only harms those who haven't and don't afk farm, while ensuring that those who have maintain a level of wealth that others now have to works several times harder and longer to achieve.

Please don't make things harder on the average player just because of the exploits of a few.

Just my 2 creds,
Zo

THis proposal has NOTHING to do with changes to credit payouts etc Please actually read the proposal properly and ignore anyone using credits nerf etc to try hijack the proposal because they are unhappy that this is a middle of the road proposal rather than catering to an extremist view point.

LonesomeLoner · Jun 29, 2022

Narmy said:
THis proposal has NOTHING to do with changes to credit payouts etc Please actually read the proposal properly and ignore anyone using credits nerf etc to try hijack the proposal because they are unhappy that this is a middle of the road proposal rather than catering to an extremist view point.

You've kinda opened the can of worms on this discussion though. People are gonna voice their opinions and shutting down other people's ideas seems counter intuitive to the whole idea of having PVs in the first place

Narmy · Jun 29, 2022

LonesomeLoner said:
You've kinda opened the can of worms on this discussion though. People are gonna voice their opinions and shutting down other people's ideas seems counter intuitive to the whole idea of having PVs in the first place

Trying to keep this on track without it been hijacked by a totally separate debate is not shutting down peoples ideas and opnions. Also theres a lot of misunderstanding about how space works and its interactions with the game as a whole. Not to mention the diffrence between it and the ground game. Ultimately Space End game is about the Reverse Engineering Process which is time consuming. That needs to be preserved somehow. There also needs to be some kind of balance. Currently on the ground game you would need food, drinks, stims, ent buffs, med buffs before you go out and do even PvE stuff let alone PVP And then you factor Decay on your weapons and armour and speeders etc. Pet food and stims if your a CH as well. In space non of that exists. the only consumables are missiles and chaff.

So if you look at crafted parts as a consumerable then the proposal makes sense that they decay and cannot be repaired. Crafted loadouts are supposed to be a stepping stone to the transition to using Reverse Enginnered parts.

Lets look at how much it would cost to replace the parts on a mainly crafted xwing or defender load out. On these loadouts the only RE parts are the sheild and reactor and both of these are what can be classed as starter RE parts. I'll use Skunkworks Parts as he is reasonable priced

So in the crafted loadout you would be looking at 3 experimental borstals a nova engine a gamma cap mk 3 di chaff launcher booster. you would be looking at paying out around 3-4mil to requip your ship once all the parts decay away. How much would a person spend on the ground in 2-3 months of play on food/drink/ents/stims/doc buffs etc?

LonesomeLoner · Jun 29, 2022

You want people to spend 3-4 mil...... every few days, cause that's how long the condition would last with condition you proposing..... just to run a crafted loadout for a standard starfighter.... let alone us pilots who want to run our POB's and gunships....? And, those are the prices of parts as is with the current system, this is gonna jack demand so far through the roof with the supply having no chance to even get close the catching up to something like that. That 3-4 mil is gonna get a lot bigger, very quickly with your system, good sir

Narmy · Jun 29, 2022

so you launch 200 times in a few days? really how often are you launching a day?

Narmy · Jun 29, 2022

LonesomeLoner said:
You want people to spend 3-4 mil...... every few days, cause that's how long the condition would last with condition you proposing..... just to run a crafted loadout for a standard starfighter.... let alone us pilots who want to run our POB's and gunships....? And, those are the prices of parts as is with the current system, this is gonna jack demand so far through the roof with the supply having no chance to even get close the catching up to something like that. That 3-4 mil is gonna get a lot bigger, very quickly with your system, good sir

And nope t wont. Skunk is pretty much commited to keeping prices reasonable. I cant say about other SW but those that love the game and want to see the server do well are not about to go ripping of players.

EthavanCrowe · Jun 29, 2022

LonesomeLoner said:
You want people to spend 3-4 mil...... every few days, cause that's how long the condition would last with condition you proposing..... just to run a crafted loadout for a standard starfighter.... let alone us pilots who want to run our POB's and gunships....? And, those are the prices of parts as is with the current system, this is gonna jack demand so far through the roof with the supply having no chance to even get close the catching up to something like that. That 3-4 mil is gonna get a lot bigger, very quickly with your system, good sir

Let's keep in mind that knobs can be turned and tweaks hashed out before and after implementation. Don't read too much into the details of this proposal. Also keep in mind that this proposal is 100% RE end game only and has nothing to do with the credit dumps during the grind to get there. There are other PVs to address that, so let's keep this discussion ONLY on the end game portion of the RE minigame.

Secondly, if we don't do something like this, the devs will, as they have plainly stated their intent to bring space more in line with the ground, and we want to make sure it'll be something that works best instead of a devhammer solution.

Narmy · Jun 29, 2022

To Quote Aconite from the space senete chat....

"The Development Team has already made clear there is an equalization problem between the space and ground that needs to be addressed and to his credit, Narmy is trying to find an amicable solution with as many people involved as possible to avoid the Development Team making sweeping decisions about how to address it.

So in short, the "do nothing, change nothing" option is not an option, and we'd encourage everyone to work with Narmy to find what would work"

As Ethavan has clearly stated the devs will implement what ever they want but would prefer it comes from the community.

MajorSethDawg · Jun 29, 2022

Narmy said:
Trying to keep this on track without it been hijacked by a totally separate debate is not shutting down peoples ideas and opnions. Also theres a lot of misunderstanding about how space works and its interactions with the game as a whole. Not to mention the diffrence between it and the ground game. Ultimately Space End game is about the Reverse Engineering Process which is time consuming. That needs to be preserved somehow. There also needs to be some kind of balance. Currently on the ground game you would need food, drinks, stims, ent buffs, med buffs before you go out and do even PvE stuff let alone PVP And then you factor Decay on your weapons and armour and speeders etc. Pet food and stims if your a CH as well. In space non of that exists. the only consumables are missiles and chaff.

So if you look at crafted parts as a consumerable then the proposal makes sense that they decay and cannot be repaired. Crafted loadouts are supposed to be a stepping stone to the transition to using Reverse Enginnered parts.

Lets look at how much it would cost to replace the parts on a mainly crafted xwing or defender load out. On these loadouts the only RE parts are the sheild and reactor and both of these are what can be classed as starter RE parts. I'll use Skunkworks Parts as he is reasonable priced

So in the crafted loadout you would be looking at 3 experimental borstals a nova engine a gamma cap mk 3 di chaff launcher booster. you would be looking at paying out around 3-4mil to requip your ship once all the parts decay away. How much would a person spend on the ground in 2-3 months of play on food/drink/ents/stims/doc buffs etc?

why not let crafted parts be repaired it works that way on the ground I think that's the major point of contention it should not cost more to run crafted parts over RE let them both be repairable by a SW and I would think your idea is more reasonable

Narmy · Jun 29, 2022

MajorSethDawg said:
why not let crafted parts be repaired it works that way on the ground I think that's the major point of contention it should not cost more to run crafted parts over RE let them both be repairable by a SW and I would think your idea is more reasonable

Then what reason do people have to actually get in to the RE end game? Also how does it balance out the cost of space vs cost on the ground?

LonesomeLoner · Jun 29, 2022

Narmy said:
To Quote Aconite from the space senete chat....

"The Development Team has already made clear there is an equalization problem between the space and ground that needs to be addressed and to his credit, Narmy is trying to find an amicable solution with as many people involved as possible to avoid the Development Team making sweeping decisions about how to address it.

So in short, the "do nothing, change nothing" option is not an option, and we'd encourage everyone to work with Narmy to find what would work"

As Ethavan has clearly stated the devs will implement what ever they want but would prefer it comes from the community.

I never said do nothing, I actually proposed a compromise since having crafted parts be destroyed perm seems a bit harsh, it was one of the first replies. The community is feeding ideas into this very PV, it would just be nice to know our ideas and opinions are being received. Crafted parts being destroyed is where you turning away the majority of people on this idea. They should be able to be repair, I just got my crafted ground gear repaired the other day. The whole idea was to equalize space to ground right? That would make it equal

MajorSethDawg · Jun 29, 2022

Narmy said:
Then what reason do people have to actually get in to the RE end game? Also how does it balance out the cost of space vs cost on the ground?

Space vs cost on the ground won't be solved until more further changes yours is a step in right direction but it will take more than this and what's the point of trying to push the RE game seeing as it takes a pretty long time for a project and if someone's parts keep breaking along the way with no means of repair i could see it as a deterrent.

Narmy · Jun 29, 2022

LonesomeLoner said:
I never said do nothing, I actually proposed a compromise since having crafted parts be destroyed perm seems a bit harsh, it was one of the first replies. The community is feeding ideas into this very PV, it would just be nice to know our ideas and opinions are being received. Crafted parts being destroyed is where you turning away the majority of people on this idea. They should be able to be repair, I just got my crafted ground gear repaired the other day. The whole idea was to equalize space to ground right? That would make it equal

ok in 3 months how much have you spent on buffs from ents foods drinks pups armours etc?

MajorSethDawg · Jun 29, 2022

Narmy said:
ok in 3 months how much have you spent on buffs from ents foods drinks pups armours etc?

I usually get buffed from one of my buddy's so about 10k my food is the same way about roughly 300k pups 50k weapon and armor I got all the materials needed for my weapon so only 100k there and for my armor it's been 3 months and my armor has barely dropped 4% quality and I spent 500k for my PVE grade 1.5 mil for my PVP both of them have hardly dropped any quality so if you find a way to make crafted ship parts match responsible armor decay then I can see where your coming from

LonesomeLoner · Jun 29, 2022

MajorSethDawg said:
I usually get buffed from one of my buddy's so about 10k my food is the same way about roughly 300k pups 50k weapon and armor I got all the materials needed for my weapon so only 100k there and for my armor it's been 3 months and my armor has barely dropped 4% quality and I spent 500k for my PVE grade 1.5 mil for my PVP both of them have hardly dropped any quality so if you find a way to make crafted ship parts match responsible armor decay then I can see where your coming from

Weapons and armor that cost 2-ish mil that last months, vs a space loadout that will last a week or 2, less if you're on the grind looking for those good RE parts. And you don't NEED foods/drinks/stims to do the majority of ground PVE, you NEED space parts to do anything in space

Narmy · Jun 29, 2022

LonesomeLoner said:
Weapons and armor that cost 2-ish mil that last months, vs a space loadout that will last a week or 2, less if you're on the grind looking for those good RE parts

and if your doing space that much for the parts that your launching over 200 times in a week then you will be able to afford 3-4 mil fairly easy even if the CD prices where slashed to 50%

EthavanCrowe · Jun 29, 2022

LonesomeLoner said:
Weapons and armor that cost 2-ish mil that last months, vs a space loadout that will last a week or 2, less if you're on the grind looking for those good RE parts. And you don't NEED foods/drinks/stims to do the majority of ground PVE, you NEED space parts to do anything in space

Like I said, those details can be worked out. But don't downvote this idea just because the number "200" was thrown out there. Upvoting this idea won't write that number in stone.

MajorSethDawg · Jun 29, 2022

MajorSethDawg said:
I usually get buffed from one of my buddy's so about 10k my food is the same way about roughly 300k pups 50k weapon and armor I got all the materials needed for my weapon so only 100k there and for my armor it's been 3 months and my armor has barely dropped 4% quality and I spent 500k for my PVE grade 1.5 mil for my PVP both of them have hardly dropped any quality so if you find a way to make crafted ship parts match responsible armor decay then I can see where your coming from

and the food is optional I get food because PVP on the ground your everyday average joe isn't spending money on food or PVP grade armor like I have.