QoL: LS Assembly/Experimentation MLS->Novice/PDW

Derpyh · Jul 9, 2024

Hope this is a good suggestion.

reidski182 · Jul 18, 2024

I agree with this PV. Grinding 9 mil exp or whatever for 3 extra experimentation points is not my idea of fun. Then you need to grind back to whatever spec you're playing. The master box already gets accuracy, dervish, etc.

elchapodan · Jul 19, 2024

reidski182 said:
I agree with this PV. Grinding 9 mil exp or whatever for 3 extra experimentation points is not my idea of fun. Then you need to grind back to whatever spec you're playing. The master box already gets accuracy, dervish, etc.

The original discussion was about assembly, which is ridiculous considering you can get almost 140 lightsaber assembly (90% socket chance) without investing a single skill point into lightsaber by means of a crafting suit and powerups.

If we're talking experimentation points then absolutely downvote - why should someone who isn't as invested in lightsaber usage be as proficient at crafting sabers as a master lightsaber user? Without going into the math I'm assuming you're asking for the 1 extra experimentation point. 9 million experience for 7-8% better quality in a single stat is nothing. No roads for jedi should be easy or quick, including your template grind. The tradeoff for your time is already a completely polarizing class, no need to make any aspect of it easier.

reidski182 · Jul 19, 2024

elchapodan said:
The original discussion was about assembly, which is ridiculous considering you can get almost 140 lightsaber assembly (90% socket chance) without investing a single skill point into lightsaber by means of a crafting suit and powerups.

If we're talking experimentation points then absolutely downvote - why should someone who isn't as invested in lightsaber usage be as proficient at crafting sabers as a master lightsaber user? Without going into the math I'm assuming you're asking for the 1 extra experimentation point. 9 million experience for 7-8% better quality in a single stat is nothing. No roads for jedi should be easy or quick, including your template grind. The tradeoff for your time is already a completely polarizing class, no need to make any aspect of it easier.

I just don't understand what killing trash mobs on Mustafar has to do with crafting a lightsaber. Makes sense for wielding one but not crafting it. I would be more inclined to agree with your perspective if it was a cool quest or something

KayDroma · Jul 19, 2024

yeah experimentation/assembly should only be from xxx4 imo, then a small add to raw Ls speed/accuracy stats etc. on master box to compensate.

elchapodan · Jul 19, 2024

reidski182 said:
I just don't understand what killing trash mobs on Mustafar has to do with crafting a lightsaber. Makes sense for wielding one but not crafting it. I would be more inclined to agree with your perspective if it was a cool quest or something

“I don’t see why master commando gets 60% damage reduction on stand fast and 4xxx only gets 30%, an hour of killing trash mobs is so boring why isn’t something like that locked behind a cool quest or something.”

You guys need to remove the force goggles you’ve been wearing for the past 6 months and come back to reality.

reidski182 · Jul 19, 2024

elchapodan said:
“I don’t see why master commando gets 60% damage reduction on stand fast and 4xxx only gets 30%, an hour of killing trash mobs is so boring why isn’t something like that locked behind a cool quest or something.”

You guys need to remove the force goggles you’ve been wearing for the past 6 months and come back to reality.

Well in that example you don't get 60% reduction if you drop master commando. For Jedi, you can craft a capped saber at master lightsaber and then use it without even novice lightsaber

elchapodan · Jul 19, 2024

reidski182 said:
Well in that example you don't get 60% reduction if you drop master commando. For Jedi, you can craft a capped saber at master lightsaber and then use it without even novice lightsaber

I’m highlighting the fact that the mechanics for separating master and non-master already exist for other parts of the game, I apologize if that example wasn’t straightforward enough.

You can craft a capped server-best weapon at master weaponsmith and then use that weapon after dropping the entire weaponsmith profession, does that better convey the point?

The fact of the matter is the request is being asked by those who want to utilize the full power of lightsaber without having to actually invest in lightsaber trees. That in itself should bring up more questions than it currently does, but that’s off topic to this. I highlighted how the original request was fallacious due to how assembly works and where the majority of it comes from. Your request was for the extra experimentation which LS xxx4 has no business of inheriting due to how stupidly simple that would make the Jedi grind. I do not think there should be any shortcuts added to the Jedi grind whatsoever, especially considering how polarizing the class already is.

Derpyh · Jul 19, 2024

elchapodan said:
I’m highlighting the fact that the mechanics for separating master and non-master already exist for other parts of the game, I apologize if that example wasn’t straightforward enough.

You can craft a capped server-best weapon at master weaponsmith and then use that weapon after dropping the entire weaponsmith profession, does that better convey the point?

The fact of the matter is the request is being asked by those who want to utilize the full power of lightsaber without having to actually invest in lightsaber trees. That in itself should bring up more questions than it currently does, but that’s off topic to this. I highlighted how the original request was fallacious due to how assembly works and where the majority of it comes from. Your request was for the extra experimentation which LS xxx4 has no business of inheriting due to how stupidly simple that would make the Jedi grind. I do not think there should be any shortcuts added to the Jedi grind whatsoever, especially considering how polarizing the class already is.

Mastering using Lightsaber "TECHNIQUES" is should be what Master is. Lightsaber Crafting BY lore is another skill entirely, it's why Sith Sorcerers and Jedi Shadows could also craft just as well if not better as they understand the fundamentals of Crystals.

If you want me to argue, MASTER POWERs should also get Experimentation, or you should only be able to attune or attune better with Powers.

Lightsabers is already so much better.

Also yeah, I had Master Lightsaber and dropped it, so now to craft I have to waste a week of just grinding XP for hours again?

If you want to play this game:

Master Powers=Higher Attunement Damage/Speed.
Lightsaber=Poor Attunement Damage/Speed.

With how skill point starved I am using Powers it sucks that I can't even craft a decent saber without dropping it and regrinding.

Your just a duelist, why should you have the same if not higher force attunement to your crystals?

I would argue that Force Assembly/Experimentation should go to Force Powers. You craft a Lightsaber using the force, not dueling.

Tyr · Jul 19, 2024

Now if you were to write a PV that suggested both MLS and Mpowers should get the LS crafting I would agree and upvote that one as it does make sense and doesn't appear to unbalance anything. The attunement thing I would not and hopefully you remember that iilum is coming with the crystal thing already planned.

Derpyh · Jul 19, 2024

You know what I'll do that.

Tyr · Jul 20, 2024

Derpyh said:
You know what I'll do that.

Except you didnt Now if you were to write a PV that suggested both MLS and Mpowers should get the LS crafting

Derpyh · Jul 20, 2024

Tyr said:
Except you didnt Now if you were to write a PV that suggested both MLS and Mpowers should get the LS crafting

You make me take medication.

First you tell me your a melee smuggler, then you say your master pistoleer/smug and 4xxx cm.

Tyr · Jul 20, 2024

Derpyh said:
You make me take medication.

First you tell me your a melee smuggler, then you say your master pistoleer/smug and 4xxx cm.

I don't recall saying I was a melee smuggler currently.....I remember arguing for melee smuggler over some sawbones idea. Chewy get Han we need a sawbones.....Your power creep, tring to rewrite classes and basically not trying to improve but rather change entire classes (and game really) along with your apperent impulsivity and lack of patience causes issues with some of your stuff, sorry.

Derpyh · Jul 20, 2024

Tyr said:
I don't recall saying I was a melee smuggler currently.....I remember arguing for melee smuggler over some sawbones idea. Chewy get Han we need a sawbones.....Your power creep, tring to rewrite classes and basically not trying to improve but rather change entire classes (and game really) along with your apperent impulsivity and lack of patience causes issues with some of your stuff, sorry.

You used that logic saying you played it and that your "melee" smuggler would be affected.

Tyr · Jul 20, 2024

Derpyh said:
You used that logic saying you played it and that your "melee" smuggler would be affected.

My Brawler tree being replaced with medic is not saying melee smuggler

The Brawler tree makes complete sense with the Han Solo type smuggler not your wanting to change it to medic and redo it as "sawbones" because it was cool in another game.

Derpyh · Jul 20, 2024

Tyr said:
My Brawler tree being replaced with medic is not saying melee smuggler The Brawler tree makes complete sense with the Han Solo type smuggler not your wanting to change it to medic and redo it as "sawbones" because it was cool in another game.

Han Solo was as much of a brawler as I am irl.

Tyr · Jul 20, 2024

Derpyh said:
Han Solo was as much of a brawler as I am irl.

And what I wrote was (note it doesn't say I was)

Yuck. What happens if I want to be a RP melee smuggler.

Just to be fair and context here is the whole thing

Let me give some feedback on your Sawbones idea.

Yuck. What happens if I want to be a RP melee smuggler. You know that person who gets into shady deals, fist fights in bars, etc. Getting rid of brawler totally gets rid of the melee option for the entire build and turns smuggler into something it is not supposed to be as well as possibly screwing up the Syndicate Swell content before it even gets here.

elchapodan · Jul 20, 2024

Powers getting lightsaber stats makes 0 sense. It's Master Lightsaber (read: encompassing everything to do with lightsabers), not Master Lightsaber Techniques.

The problem is your PV or ideas don't consider any form of balance or logical justification and opens even more degenerate min maxing than currently there already is. Please consider both pros and cons.

Tyr · Jul 20, 2024

elchapodan said:
Powers getting lightsaber stats makes 0 sense. It's Master Lightsaber (read: encompassing everything to do with lightsabers), not Master Lightsaber Techniques.

The problem is your PV or ideas don't consider any form of balance or logical justification and opens even more degenerate min maxing than currently there already is. Please consider both pros and cons.

Well to be fair, if Master Powers was able to craft a LS as well as MLS you could make it justified if you stretched a tad and it would not really, imo unless I am overlooking something, unbalance anything by allowing them to craft them. A "Master" of the force should have no problem creating a light saber. That really is different from using one. A blacksmith can create a sword, a magnificent sword, yet not know how to use it. So Cryka does kinda have it ok if the Master box allows you to craft them. But again I could be wrong because I am missing something.

elchapodan · Jul 20, 2024

The blatantly large issue is it opens the door to even more degenerates investing in both powers and mls for the extra experimentation for even better sabers than we currently have. We haven't even seen 5th gen (battlefield tier) sabers yet, let's pump the brakes on these changes before you get the bigger picture of what this request actually affects.