QoL: LS Assembly/Experimentation MLS->Novice/PDW

QoL: LS Assembly/Experimentation MLS->Novice/PDW
This idea/suggestion has been flagged as Not Implemented because of a lack of popularity, lack of interest, lack of feasibility, or other determination by the Development Team, so the suggestion will not be implemented. Once a suggestion has been flagged this way, the decision is final. Although the issue may be raised again in the future after a six month cooldown. A response explanation from the Development Team can be found in the thread.
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Derpyh

Derpyh

Proposal
Move the Lightsaber Assembly and Experimentation bonus you get from Master Lightsaber to Novice Lightsaber and the Jedi Padawan Box.
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Justification
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I think it should only require xxx4 to craft the best sabers, leaving Master unique by focusing on it's combat aspects. It's a silly requirement, and punished people who make interesting builds more. As much as others tell me otherwise, I saw a friend craft their saber at Master and I had only xxx4; and *yeah*. Pretty significant.

I'm certainly not going to bother crafting one (especially OR/Gen5s) without Master in it's current state, but it's lame to have to grind it every time. It is just a waste of time, and MLS is pretty meta anyways.
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Motivation
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I like suggesting things to improve the game's quality and I think this was a call-back from Pre-CU.
Hope this is a good suggestion.
 
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elchapodan said:
The blatantly large issue is it opens the door to even more degenerates investing in both powers and mls for the extra experimentation for even better sabers than we currently have. We haven't even seen 5th gen (battlefield tier) sabers yet, let's pump the brakes on these changes before you get the bigger picture of what this request actually affects.
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Yep I missed that. You would have to make them not stack but you are right, easier to just have patience and wait and see what is coming. So many changes coming and these knee jerk impulsive suggestions really do not often consider the unintended consequences.
 
dervish and advanced saber throw are the real value of the mls box not some dumb crafting stats

plenty of builds that rely upon lightsabers as their primary source of damage dont need every single lightsaber box and mls has a fuckload of abilities tied into it that you might not even use that much

if im not mls its a mighty inconvenience to completely reorganize my build just because i got a good lightsaber schematic to drop in a dungeon

its not fun or really that much of an "accomplishment" nor is it a capstone of the lightsaber tree abilities that goes to dervish

i want to run a 4x41 ls build but i cant justify dropping mls because im still using a gen 4 and will just have to spec back as soon as i get anything better

its just asinine and obtuse for its own sake

i think moving it to xxx4 is fair as it requires commitment still but isnt a whole master box level of commitment
 
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Tyr said:
I don't recall saying I was a melee smuggler currently.....I remember arguing for melee smuggler over some sawbones idea. Chewy get Han we need a sawbones.....Your power creep, tring to rewrite classes and basically not trying to improve but rather change entire classes (and game really) along with your apperent impulsivity and lack of patience causes issues with some of your stuff, sorry.
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im sorry but derpy isnt impulsive or lack patience she legitimately doesnt have the time to constantly be regrinding a bunch of xp

making jedi grind more xp isnt actually solving any problems you care about so why even shit up this discussion
 
elchapodan said:
Powers getting lightsaber stats makes 0 sense. It's Master Lightsaber (read: encompassing everything to do with lightsabers), not Master Lightsaber Techniques.

The problem is your PV or ideas don't consider any form of balance or logical justification and opens even more degenerate min maxing than currently there already is. Please consider both pros and cons.
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the problem with your pov is that giving lightsaber crafting stats earlier in the tree doesnt actually cause any balance issues because if you are a jedi and you are going to need a good saber for your build you will be going to whatever length you must to craft that saber

what you are arguing for is wasting a players time not balance

also this isnt very forward thinking either because this problem is going to only grow as new saber schematics get added to the game

"yay a new saber schem dropped in nar shaddaa! now i have to spend the next few days of my short time with this game grinding up skills i dont care about dropping the ones i do care about and then dropping those skills i dont care about and grinding the ones i do care about

this is such a fun game!"
 
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If you get a Gen 5 LS why would you keep it and complain now I have to go MLS to craft this (cry a river)... Just to turn around droping MLS back to Master powers using the Saber now as a Stat Stick? Better to give it to a MLS user friend that can actually use it... Or sell it for the master cloak. Go get the RE Arm its better for your build as a MPowers then any saber. But then you would have to have novice artisan on something how inconvenient.
 
Felixx said:
If you get a Gen 5 LS why would you keep it and complain now I have to go MLS to craft this (cry a river)... Just to turn around droping MLS back to Master powers using the Saber now as a Stat Stick? Better to give it to a MLS user friend that can actually use it... Or sell it for the master cloak. Go get the RE Arm its better for your build as a MPowers then any saber. But then you would have to have novice artisan on something how inconvenient.
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because you dont have to have master lightsabers to make good use of a lightsaber? some builds take no powers but dont get mls either and rely on a few lightsaber trees for damage

this is a qol suggestion and it proves nothing that you have all the time in the world to grind up and down jedi trees

not to mention that force regeneration is 100x more important for powers builds so they basically have to have an ors hilt if they want bis for their build
 
spinneret said:
because you dont have to have master lightsabers to make good use of a lightsaber? some builds take no powers but dont get mls either and rely on a few lightsaber trees for damage

this is a qol suggestion and it proves nothing that you have all the time in the world to grind up and down jedi trees
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I am not on the MLS side or the powers side, My point was if you get the best saber in the game it should go to someone that can use it fully and that is someone that is MLS not a dabbler.
 
Felixx said:
I am not on the MLS side or the powers side, My point was if you get the best saber in the game it should go to someone that can use it fully and that is someone that is MLS not a dabbler.
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thats just not true? a jedi with xx44 could basically do what a mls does and any of the first 4 trees plus xxx1 is also viable

jedis dont build like normies or i would agree
 
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spinneret said:
im sorry but derpy isnt impulsive or lack patience she legitimately doesnt have the time to constantly be regrinding a bunch of xp

making jedi grind more xp isnt actually solving any problems you care about so why even shit up this discussion
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You are sorry because she already said she has no patience, or rather Patience barely know her". And just reading her PV's and discord shows the obvious knee jerk impulsive stuff. But that is besides the point. Even though she has a few good ideas, most of these things, including this one, are not about making the game better for everyone but rather making it better for herself. If you want to be her apologist you are not doing well. To make the best you need to have the best and that means Master Box. Right now, as has been pointed out to your friend, you can make the LS basically how she wants anyway without MLS by using crafting suit etc. AND we do not know what changes are coming with 5th gen, Illum, etc.

"yay a new saber schem dropped in nar shaddaa! now i have to spend the next few days of my short time with this game grinding up....."

she legitimately doesnt have the time to constantly be regrinding a bunch of xp

Yay I want to do everything my way and make everything instantly because I don't have the patience to take the time so lets make everything happen quick just for me......Why don;t we make the end game stuff just take us to the last fight and give us rewards "because we don't have the time and taking that long isn't fun..." or why don't we just level up instantly with tokens because we don't have the time, or why don't we....The logic behind that argument falls flat and IS disruptive and not balanced. Good things should take time and sorry but trying to cater the game to just indiviuals ruins it for all. The I don't have time argument sounds like a temper tantrum argument of I want what I want when I want and how I want. I don't have the time because of health reasons to sit at the pc for extended periods so some of the long end game stuff is difficult if not never going to be reached by me but that doesn't mean they should change it just to suit me. Same with her and saying I want it changed because I don't have the time (notice all the I's) is not helpful and the logic is flawed. I mean hey why not let me change classes or trees with no time needed sine I don't have the time; Getting buffed at the Cantina takes up tp much time so we should change it; Let's make Lavafest permanent because I don't have time to....its not fun to ......see how that works? Accomplishment is what you get for doing the hard things, the time consuming things.
 
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Tyr said:
You are sorry because she already said she has no patience, or rather Patience barely know her". And just reading her PV's and discord shows the obvious knee jerk impulsive stuff. But that is besides the point. Even though she has a few good ideas, most of these things, including this one, are not about making the game better for everyone but rather making it better for herself. If you want to be her apologist you are not doing well. To make the best you need to have the best and that means Master Box. Right now, as has been pointed out to your friend, you can make the LS basically how she wants anyway without MLS by using crafting suit etc. AND we do not know what changes are coming with 5th gen, Illum, etc.

"yay a new saber schem dropped in nar shaddaa! now i have to spend the next few days of my short time with this game grinding up....."

she legitimately doesnt have the time to constantly be regrinding a bunch of xp

Yay I want to do everything my way and make everything instantly because I don't have the patience to take the time so lets make everything happen quick just for me......Why don;t we make the end game stuff just take us to the last fight and give us rewards "because we don't have the time and taking that long isn't fun..." or why don't we just level up instantly with tokens because we don't have the time, or why don't we....The logic behind that argument falls flat and IS disruptive and not balanced. Good things should take time and sorry but trying to cater the game to just indiviuals ruins it for all. The I don't have time argument sounds like a temper tantrum argument of I want what I want when I want and how I want. I don't have the time because of health reasons to sit at the pc for extended periods so some of the long end game stuff is difficult if not never going to be reached by me but that doesn't mean they should change it just to suit me. Same with her and saying I want it changed because I don't have the time (notice all the I's) is not helpful and the logic is flawed. I mean hey why not let me change classes or trees with no time needed sine I don't have the time; Getting buffed at the Cantina takes up tp much time so we should change it; Let's make Lavafest permanent because I don't have time to....its not fun to ......see how that works? Accomplishment is what you get for doing the hard things, the time consuming things.
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There is a difference between grinding to frankly get better and be better and fulfilling and grinding because it's mandatory to craft an item of value to you that you already did but you are not the correct spec.

What your saying is like "Oh I did HK and looted this valuable item, but now that I did DF1 and looted another item I can't use this item anymore until I do DF2 again!"

That would be a more correct argument, currently it sounds like you have no idea of my issue.

-Or- doing a hard unrewarding questline to use and gain an item, but because you did another quest line you no longer can use it until you can do that entire questline again.
 
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spinneret said:
jedis dont build like normies or i would agree
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That sounds like you don't think anyone else has messed with jedi tree's. Been MDefender/Msabers mix of sabers. mix of Defender, Master Healer/4xx4 saber, Enhancer, Def, 44xx sabers. Currently MFencer/Defender/4xxx healer. Having Msaber vs dabbling in sabers is a noticeable difference in damage.
 
Derpyh said:
There is a difference between grinding to frankly get better and be better and fulfilling and grinding because it's mandatory to craft an item of value to you that you already did but you are not the correct spec.

What your saying is like "Oh I did HK and looted this valuable item, but now that I did DF1 and looted another item I can't use this item anymore until I do DF2 again!"

That would be a more correct argument, currently it sounds like you have no idea of my issue.

-Or- doing a hard unrewarding questline to use and gain an item, but because you did another quest line you no longer can use it until you can do that entire questline again.
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You are the one saying it should be changed away from Master because YOU don't want to "spend the next few days of my short time with this game grinding up.....". You want a Master level weapon, well you need to be a Master level to make it, time or no. But hey I am short of time and running to Mos E and getting Ent buffs wastes my short time so we need to make them last until server reset right? Putting in time and effort is part of the game and this creep you offer would just spread to other things because hey we did it for that based on someone not wanting to waste their short time. It takes as long as it takes and special treatment should be considered based on someone having short time to play. Why not make it the same for MWS and MAS with that logic.

Sorry but saying you want a Master level LS but don't want to have to be Master to craft master because you do't have enough play time is just wrong. You could make that argument about ALL Master skills if you wanted based on I don't have a lot of time to play and shouldn't have to grind Master again after I purposely dropped it knowing I would have to grind it back for Master Level crafting
 
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Tyr said:
You are the one saying it should be changed away from Master because YOU don't want to "spend the next few days of my short time with this game grinding up.....". You want a Master level weapon, well you need to be a Master level to make it, time or no. But hey I am short of time and running to Mos E and getting Ent buffs wastes my short time so we need to make them last until server reset right? Putting in time and effort is part of the game and this creep you offer would just spread to other things because hey we did it for that based on someone not wanting to waste their short time. It takes as long as it takes and special treatment should be considered based on someone having short time to play. Why not make it the same for MWS and MAS with that logic.

Sorry but saying you want a Master level LS but don't want to have to be Master to craft master because you do't have enough play time is just wrong. You could make that argument about ALL Master skills if you wanted based on I don't have a lot of time to play and shouldn't have to grind Master again after I purposely dropped it knowing I would have to grind it back for Master Level crafting
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I did grind Master sabers to craft a weapon....
 
Felixx said:
That sounds like you don't think anyone else has messed with jedi tree's. Been MDefender/Msabers mix of sabers. mix of Defender, Master Healer/4xx4 saber, Enhancer, Def, 44xx sabers. Currently MFencer/Defender/4xxx healer. Having Msaber vs dabbling in sabers is a noticeable difference in damage.
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im msabers rn but that doesnt matter in this discussion because a jedi with even just one tree of lightsaber skills will want a bis saber without a doubt

as i said you just want to waste peoples time and its not justifiable
 
Tyr said:
You are sorry because she already said she has no patience, or rather Patience barely know her". And just reading her PV's and discord shows the obvious knee jerk impulsive stuff. But that is besides the point. Even though she has a few good ideas, most of these things, including this one, are not about making the game better for everyone but rather making it better for herself. If you want to be her apologist you are not doing well. To make the best you need to have the best and that means Master Box. Right now, as has been pointed out to your friend, you can make the LS basically how she wants anyway without MLS by using crafting suit etc. AND we do not know what changes are coming with 5th gen, Illum, etc.

"yay a new saber schem dropped in nar shaddaa! now i have to spend the next few days of my short time with this game grinding up....."

she legitimately doesnt have the time to constantly be regrinding a bunch of xp

Yay I want to do everything my way and make everything instantly because I don't have the patience to take the time so lets make everything happen quick just for me......Why don;t we make the end game stuff just take us to the last fight and give us rewards "because we don't have the time and taking that long isn't fun..." or why don't we just level up instantly with tokens because we don't have the time, or why don't we....The logic behind that argument falls flat and IS disruptive and not balanced. Good things should take time and sorry but trying to cater the game to just indiviuals ruins it for all. The I don't have time argument sounds like a temper tantrum argument of I want what I want when I want and how I want. I don't have the time because of health reasons to sit at the pc for extended periods so some of the long end game stuff is difficult if not never going to be reached by me but that doesn't mean they should change it just to suit me. Same with her and saying I want it changed because I don't have the time (notice all the I's) is not helpful and the logic is flawed. I mean hey why not let me change classes or trees with no time needed sine I don't have the time; Getting buffed at the Cantina takes up tp much time so we should change it; Let's make Lavafest permanent because I don't have time to....its not fun to ......see how that works? Accomplishment is what you get for doing the hard things, the time consuming things.
Click to expand...
mucho texto

all this boils down to you really not caring how obtuse this system is for people because of some poopbutt fuck the carebears idealism when thats not even whats going on here

its actually more logical and rational that a jedi wouldnt have to unlearn and relearn skills in the most gamified bullshit way just to make sure they dont waste a drop they got in a dungeon

this pov isnt saving the server its just some restrictive head in ass naysaying pearl clutching because you want things to be more "hardcore" without really knowing or caring what that even means

this isnt balance this is wasting our time

getting a buff isnt wasting my time nor is waiting for a instance reset because i have so many other things to do in the game but grinding skills ive already grinded a few hundred times over to make minor stat adjustments on my gear is stupid without purpose
 
spinneret said:
mucho texto

all this boils down to you really not caring how obtuse this system is for people because of some poopbutt fuck the carebears idealism when thats not even whats going on here

its actually more logical and rational that a jedi wouldnt have to unlearn and relearn skills in the most gamified bullshit way just to make sure they dont waste a drop they got in a dungeon

this pov isnt saving the server its just some restrictive head in ass naysaying pearl clutching because you want things to be more "hardcore" without really knowing or caring what that even means

this isnt balance this is wasting our time

getting a buff isnt wasting my time nor is waiting for a instance reset because i have so many other things to do in the game but grinding skills ive already grinded a few hundred times over to make minor stat adjustments on my gear is stupid without purpose
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Such a well thought out, concise, professional, counter argument you make there. It's right because you say it is. I haven't seen such polite and quality work since middle school.

If it is logical and rational that a Jedi wouldn't have to unlearn and relearn skills that would apply to every class using that logic. I also point out that "having so many other things to do" is not the argument she made. She made the argument about her short time (odd though enough time for test center, blog length PV's, etc.). But I bow to your superior counter argument skills. (Master Weapon = Master Weapon Maker. So simple)

to make minor stat adjustments on my gear is stupid without purpose

That is funny you write the purpose (make adj to gear) and say it is without purpose. Let me help again in hopes it sinks in. Master Weapon = Master Weapon Maker. So simple.

As to minor adjustment well as Felixx said above Having Msaber vs dabbling in sabers is a noticeable difference in damage.
 
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We won’t make this change. Instead we will make sure lightsabers are tradable among Jedi (if not biolinked or containing any items), so Jedi who chose to specialize in Lightsabers can be sought out for their crafting services, as is the general case with supporting the nature of specialized professions and experience leading to codependency among other professions.
 
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