Align neutrals to match faction standards for staging up and down from Combatant/Special Forces states.

Align neutrals to match faction standards for staging up and down from Combatant/Special Forces states.
This idea/suggestion has been flagged as Not Implemented because of a lack of popularity, lack of interest, lack of feasibility, or other determination by the Development Team, so the suggestion will not be implemented. Once a suggestion has been flagged this way, the decision is final. Although the issue may be raised again in the future after a six month cooldown. A response explanation from the Development Team can be found in the thread.
Status
Not open for further replies.

Chiraka

Proposal
Proposed Changes to Neutrals:
1. Extend flagging down timers from special forces to 5 minutes to align with other factions.
2. Have neutrals show on the war pad when flagged for special forces.
3. Require going to the appropriate recruiter to step down from combatant state to the civilian state.
4. Have neutrals names flash when flagging up and down just like other factions. (If this is a bug then this is just proposing to fix this bug. )
Justification
Align neutrals to match faction standards for staging up and down from Combatant/Special Forces states so all factions are equal or lack of a faction doesn't gives added benefits when flagging for the GCW.
Motivation
Aiming to create a fair and balanced game experiences for all.
This player voice aims to align the standards for staging up and down for participation for the GCW.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Moonstrous, Dundee, CatoNovus and 20 others
This suggestion has been closed. Votes are no longer accepted.
abraxas said:
How does flagging down and running away make any difference? It results in the same thing. It's not like we can flag down and flip factions quickly.
Click to expand...
You're literally arguing against a design pillar almost every MMORPG ever has used with regard to PvP. Because devs have figured out a long time ago not including PvP flagging restrictions leads to flagging abuse.

You're going to have to come up with something a lot better to convince me that flagging timers shouldn't be consistent to avoid abuse. Otherwise, everything you've presented is just noise.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Polarias
Echoing similar thoughts here amidst the noise, these seem like relatively reasonable changes to the systems at hand. While I can understand that some might be concerned that these changes would effectively do away with the ‘upsides’ of playing neutral, that is not sufficient justification in itself to vote against changes, if the status-quo as it stands provides an advantage to neutral players with the timers. Of all the recommendations, I think that is the one that needs to be addressed the most.
 
  • Like
Reactions: RogerDabbit
RogerDabbit said:
You're literally arguing against a design pillar almost every MMORPG ever has used with regard to PvP. Because devs have figured out a long time ago not including PvP flagging restrictions leads to flagging abuse.

You're going to have to come up with something a lot better to convince me that flagging timers shouldn't be consistent to avoid abuse. Otherwise, everything you've presented is just noise.
Click to expand...
Do you actually PVP?
 
There's need to be something given to neutral players for me to consider this a good suggestion.

The words "abuse" and "exploit" get thrown around way too liberally on this game, especially when referring to this specific group of players.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Kazhar
RoHRemis said:
There's need to be something given to neutral players for me to consider this a good suggestion.

The words "abuse" and "exploit" get thrown around way too liberally on this game, especially when referring to this specific group of players.
Click to expand...
That would be amenable to me in this situation.

I've already posted on the kill count thread that that change would have my support if this one goes through, because the goal here (for me) is primarily consistency with a dash of encouraging players to join a GCW faction.

Credit payouts for merc work, for example, could be a compromise pre-2.0. I'm down with that, but it will probably step on the toes of BHs. Maybe a temporary payout that's standard per kill, so BHs get higher payout potential due to the contract? Separate perks and rewards for neutrals is probably the best idea, but seems like a 2.0 level change.

Making the flagging and, in turn, the PvP kill counter consistent seems like a no-brainer to me that would cost relatively little in resources (presumably). Pre-2.0, these seem like good changes, assuming they're made hand in hand. However, there seems to be a circular firing squad going on right now, when the reasoning behind both requested changes are very similar.
 
The only part of this I agree with is the flashing while flagging.

I also think that the "Faction Helper - <faction> Special Forces" should be visible to all
 
So personally I decided to go Neutral on my BH for the specific reason of not being forced to be tied in with a faction, as for people talking about it making fights more fair and prevent weird run away ambush tacitcs. I don't see how implementing the changes would change that, First off, there is currently a 1 minute timer, and if the player flagging down is caught in any combat it stops the timer, NPC or PC. So in order to safely flag down, a player who joined in the fight either has to leave the fight and safely flag down, or if they die flag down at a cloning center that's not in the conflict zone.

In the case of people not being able to reorganize and counter attack, if a player decided to go back to someplace else to go sit in a cantina for buffs again by the time they get back that person has probably already left because there was no one else to fight/or because the general of whatever event is going on is dead and the event is over. Every time i've gone to a pvp zone to watch/possibly take part in pvp it's normally 2 or 3 players that show up, and normally they get wrecked by all the NPCs of the rival faction then leave cause they can't kill them, what's the point of staying flagged up if people bail the first time they die.

Personally I do feel like this is punishment for the overall group because of the actions of a few individuals. If I recall correctly from live Neutral names not flashing when flagging up is a bug. But Forcing GCW faction mechanics on what's supposed to be a freelancer/Merc option for players is unfair unless you're gonna let Freelancer/merc factions start taking control of cities and what not and give them unique faction gear, etc. But then that defeats the whole purpose of being neutral cause the idea was that they could just play with whoever they want in PvP
 
  • Like
Reactions: TheDragoonOfBC and Kazhar
RoHRemis said:
The only part of this I agree with is the flashing while flagging.

I also think that the "Faction Helper - <faction> Special Forces" should be visible to all
Click to expand...
Would also be nice if neutral could earn some of the faction perks too... And appear on the war terminal, BUT ONLY IF their action will affect the factional alignments...

I really don't have a dog in this fight myself, as I'm not a ground PVPer. BUT I agree whole heartedly with the idea that the War IntelPad is for factional control, and since they can't(at current) affect it nor benefit from it, that should be left out.
 
  • Like
Reactions: RoHRemis and Kazhar
abraxas said:
IGN?
Click to expand...
Not gonna link that on a server where a player has already been targetted, but I've made no bones here, in Discord, or in-game with the fact that I'm relatively new to SWG. In spite of that, I've experienced PvP enough to see how flagging requirement discrepancies could be abused in the current game system. Consistency is a core pillar of any good PvP game, and should be especially so for a game that's currently trying to build up its PvP scene. This isn't even intuitive inconsistency, which is why I don't feel it's a desirable status quo.
 
If you really cared about balance between factions and GCW you should be first upvoting this other PV instead which only has 6 upvotes so far included mine https://swgr.org/post/gcw-invasions-tool-and-building-phase-adjustments.730/
Other aspects like city invasions have been incredibly umbalanced since release but i guess when its on your favor you are not interested in balancing issues. Also asking for a "review bombing" in multiple discord servers bringing up your personal issues with certain individuals wont help too much other than making your playervoice get stuck.
That being said, being neutral has its inherit benefits and downsides, if you want neutrals to get the same restrictions and downsides as the other 2 factions they would have to be treated the same way with benefits and perks ie: access to gcw bases, special cosmetics/armor/weps, kill counts, etc...
 
  • Like
Reactions: RogerDabbit, Shaake, TheJokerofSocal and 2 others
RogerDabbit said:
Not gonna link that on a server where a player has already been targetted, but I've made no bones here, in Discord, or in-game with the fact that I'm relatively new to SWG. In spite of that, I've experienced PvP enough to see how flagging requirement discrepancies could be abused in the current game system. Consistency is a core pillar of any good PvP game, and should be especially so for a game that's currently trying to build up its PvP scene. This isn't even intuitive inconsistency, which is why I don't feel it's a desirable status quo.
Click to expand...
It's aight already figured it out. <3
 
Chiraka said:
This player voice aims to align the standards for staging up and down for participation for the GCW.
Click to expand...
Civilian combats have always been a problem in war. I'm sure the US would have loved to know which civilians in Vietnam were going to pull out weapons and shot at them. Thus I'm sure Vietcon would have liked to know which civilians were ratting on them. French civilians helped the allied forces drive German forces out of France. It was also German/Polish/(insert country) civilians that turn there fellow civilians over to the SS. The system as it is, represents the guerilla warfare aspect of war. The empire/rebels don't know who to trust and that is the way it is suppose to be. Paranoia is part of war.
 
  • Like
Reactions: RoHRemis
Status
Not open for further replies.
SWG Restoration is a fan-made, non-profit, community-driven, project.
Not affiliated with nor endorsed by Daybreak Games, Lucasfilm Entertainment, Electronic Arts or The Walt Disney Company.
Star Wars ™ & © Lucasfilm Ltd. No marks or intellectual property are owned by or licensed to SWG Restoration.
Top Bottom